Author Topic: Immunizations  (Read 35629 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40292
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Immunizations
« on: February 11, 2001, 08:33:00 AM »
Much controversy surrounds immunization. I have often wondered why anyone who would not eat animal products would inject them into their children.

It is now admitted that there is a danger. If we rely upon the government to protect us, rather than understanding the issues using the light we have been given we shall find ourselves deceived.

We now find that cow products from countries with BSE (mad cow disease) have been used in vaccines.

abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/vaccines_madcow010209.html

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Curt

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1034
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2001, 11:05:00 AM »
Quite true Bro. Richard and the US FDA are surprised to find out that their guidelines were not being strictly followed with regards to companies use of animal products from countries with known BSE activity.

The latest on Immunization is trying to make it painless so a trial is in place for a patch to be worn on the skin in place of needles for kids.

However it is done, we need to look at the issues associated with Immunization.

FAITH - As God's blessed sons & daughters we are to attempt the impossible to the extent that we will fail unless God steps in.   Keep the faith

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40292
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2004, 06:31:00 PM »
It is being reported that there appears to be a relationship between the hepatitis B vaccine and MS. Forbes
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2004, 07:36:00 PM »
Now that is a interesting thought. There is so much we do not know.

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40292
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2004, 01:34:00 PM »
One of the concerns regarding immunizations that we have is the fact that some are produced from animal sources. Why is the is a concern? Because if it is dangerous to eat animals and their products how much more dangerous to inject it into the blood stream.

Is this a valid concern? I think so in the light of the rampant spread of serious animal diseases such as BSE and Scrapie. Could these diseases be spread to man through immunizations? You be the judge.

"In many countries in Asia and Africa limited supplies of imported rabies vaccines derived from culture of human cells have been available. Many people continue to be offered indigenously produced sheep brain vaccine after exposure to a rabid animal. Scrapie is known to exist in sheep around many centres where the vaccine is produced. In the mountain sheep of the Kumaon foothills in the Himalayas, for example, scrapie was established more than four decades ago and 1-10% of the flock was reported to have the disease in 1961.2 In the Himalayan foothills the Central Research Institute continues to produce four to five million doses of sheep
brain vaccine annually. Transmission of abnormal prion protein, PrPsc, in sheep brain vaccine might have occurred in some of the 30 documented cases of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in different regions in India.3 Because Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease has a latency of about 20 years, many recipients of sheep brain rabies vaccine could emigrate to Britain before becoming ill."

BMJ Journals

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Curt

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1034
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2005, 07:24:00 AM »
Mon Oct 3, 4:04 PM ET

CHICAGO (Reuters) - More than a third of U.S. pediatricians surveyed said they would tell families who refuse all vaccinations for their children to look elsewhere for care, according to a study published on Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT

Of 302 pediatricians questioned, 256 said they had encountered a parent who refused to let a child receive at least one vaccination in the previous 12 months, and 162 -- 39 percent of the group -- who had a parent refuse all vaccinations.

The refusals were most commonly based on safety concerns, worries about children getting multiple vaccines at once, philosophical reasons and religious beliefs, said the report from Chicago's Rush Medical College.

"In the case of parents refusing specific vaccines, 82 (28 percent of the doctors) said that they would ask the family to seek care elsewhere; for refusal of all vaccines, 116 (39 percent) of pediatricians said they would refer the family" to another doctor, said the report.

The reason physicians cite most often for wanting to drop such patients were lack of shared goals and lack of trust, added the study published in the October issue of the Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine.

The study said the rate of unvaccinated children in the United States has risen significantly since 1995. While most parents continue to believe that vaccination is important, a large number express concern about safety, it said.

The
World Health Organization said earlier this year that vaccines prevent more than 2 million deaths per year globally, mainly among children; but it said many Internet sites have appeared offering "unbalanced, misleading and alarming vaccine safety information" that is confusing both patients and health workers.

FAITH - As God's blessed sons & daughters we are to attempt the impossible to the extent that we will fail unless God steps in.   Keep the faith

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2005, 09:07:00 AM »
I don't know what the ans. is on this. When my children were small I had them get them. But as adults me and my daughter and oldest son never get them. In the last 21 years we rarely get colds, no flu onless it is 24 hour flu and then very very seldom. How does one account for people that don't take the shots and find them in such good health concerning flu and colds??? It has to be in what we eat.... or maybe more to the point, what we don't eat.
What do you think?

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

WendyForsyth

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2410
    • http://
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2005, 10:34:00 AM »
Do you also realize that alot of doctor's will report you to CPS, and also the public school will report you to CPS now, for not having your child vaccinated.

It's getting harsh out there. I almost lost my kids this year, and vaccines became the least of the issues.

I have no doubt that God considers you to be one of His friends; otherwise He would not trust you with so many crosses, sufferings and humiliations. Crosses are God's means of drawing souls closer to Himself.

Fenelon


Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2005, 12:25:00 PM »
Carol was telling me that in Thunderbird Academy in Scottsdale, Az. she would not have been allowed to graduate if she had not finelly gotten her shots. That was some 20 years ago.

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Curt

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1034
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2005, 09:54:00 PM »
Hi,

it is a dilema and it is a personal decision at that. In principle I do not see the point or necessity to get a shot for something we should be prevented from naturally like the flu. We take medication for cholesterol while taking in  all sources. We take medication for constipation while not heeding the information we receive about a high fibre diet.

In some countries the probability of contracting certain diseases is much higher than in the more developed countries. Personal risk is therefore a concern.

So it really depends upon your personal health condition, your personal conviction on such matters, the environment in which you live or moving to, the governmental regulations for the area, etc.

It is not a simple topic. However, for Doctors to refuse to treat or work with you and move you over to another Doctor because you do not have a need for it is the real issue at hand here. For citizens to report you because of their sensitivity towards children or their fear for themselves is pitiful when they see that you are not careless in the overall care and training of your children. It is selfish.

So far, our Doctors have worked with us and it has has not been an issue thank GOd but one never knows when it will be.

What are your thoughts?

FAITH - As God's blessed sons & daughters we are to attempt the impossible to the extent that we will fail unless God steps in.   Keep the faith

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2005, 09:57:00 PM »
Kind of sounds like world war two when people could not trust their friends or neighbors or even some family as all were told to tell on one another.

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Richard Sherwin

  • Keeper of Bees
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1567
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2005, 11:55:00 PM »
As far as flu vaccines I'm not sure if a person really needs them or not at this point in time. But when I think of vaccines for diseases like polio then yes I think the government has the right to say that we must be vaccinated to stop epidemics. If the bird flu gets going I just don't know, on the one hand there is personal and possibly religious freedom but on the other hand if by exercising my personal freedom I cause others to get sick and die do I have that right? Where does the greater good of society trump personal freedoms and convictions? And yes I realize the prophetic implications of my questions.

RichardS

Laughter is an instant vacation

WendyForsyth

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2410
    • http://
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2005, 01:55:00 AM »
Honestly, depending on the flu and everything, or something like Pneumonia, it doesn't always have to do with prevention. A virus or deadly bacterial agent is far different than someone caring for themselves properly. Someone could be in perfect health and follow all the health laws, and get hit with a terrible strain of the flu and are we going to say it's God's will if they die because they weren't vaccinated (I personally do not believe vaccines work in the case of the flu, but an example)? Or Pneumonia? Should we refuse antibiotics for ourselves or our children because we should have a strong immune system and then just say it is God's will when they die? I think not. I have almost never given my children antibiotics. Very rarely. But, when my daughter had a 106 temp and was hallucinating and it all came on with no warning, no cough, in about the space of half an hour....you bet I got her on antibiotics and heavy doses of Tylenol and Ibuprophen immediately. Still it was extremely difficult to kick. I believe my children have strong immune systems because I haven't used many antibiotics, but I sure won't turn them down when it is prudent to use them. I believe God gave the men who invented these things that spark of brilliance for a reason, and we are to use prudence with them just as in every other area of our lives. I believe Mrs.White chastised one family for not using what was available and letting their daughter die and misinterpreting her writings on this subject.
I have no doubt that God considers you to be one of His friends; otherwise He would not trust you with so many crosses, sufferings and humiliations. Crosses are God's means of drawing souls closer to Himself.

Fenelon


Bill Wennell

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 337
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2005, 05:40:00 AM »
http://www.sdadefend.com/onlinebooks/vaccination_frame.htm

------------------
Bill Wennell
USDA Meat & Poultry Inspector
bible4u@localnet.com

Bill Wennell<BR>Medical-missionary Brazil<BR>BiblicalTruths2000@Juno.com

Curt

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1034
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2005, 08:26:00 AM »
Wendy & Sherwyn, you are going through the same thoughts we all have and again, there is no straight answer for anyone. Based upon my knowledge and information I will make a different decision to each of you. However, we all have a duty and responsibility to do the best for an ill person including ourselves in time of need. For me that would mean serious Hydrotherapy if I believe that a particular Hydrotherapy treatment will take care of the situation, for another it may mean an immediate trip to the Emergency department, we cannot legislate the action.
The experience in Battle Creek Sanitarium was a real show of faith where they would use no medication and got involved in a lot of prayer over a patient's serious condition situation and see God bless. Can we do that today? Left to be answered.
FAITH - As God's blessed sons & daughters we are to attempt the impossible to the extent that we will fail unless God steps in.   Keep the faith

WendyForsyth

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2410
    • http://
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2005, 06:56:00 PM »
That has been done recently by parents, and the children were immediately removed from the custody of their parents and also the healthy children. We are living in different times. I think that we can do all those things AND follow the law, render unto Caesar....and not have our children taken away from us.

I know that just because I vaccinate my child does not mean I stop praying for them. If my God is strong enough to heal my child of any illness, then my God is strong enough to protect my child from ill effects of vaccines if I am forced to do so at the peril of losing custody to the state. And yes...this is a different stance than I used to have. I believe that I have a more informed, balanced outlook than I used to.

I have no doubt that God considers you to be one of His friends; otherwise He would not trust you with so many crosses, sufferings and humiliations. Crosses are God's means of drawing souls closer to Himself.

Fenelon


Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 40292
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2005, 07:22:00 PM »
Posted by Bill Wennell 10-31-05 and moved from a duplicate topic.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/achickenandeggproblemhowtospeedupproductionofflushots  

While this article is not even the tip of the iceburg, it gives a little peak behind the scenes of just how vaccines are produced. One might logically wonder just how safe vaccines are or can be given the un-natural ways that they are produced, the chemicals involved, not to mention the DNA and cells of different (mostly unclean) animals that are injected into YOUR body. How can we logically lawd this man made invention for the wonderful strides it has apparantly given us against a multitude of different germs. Or has Satan really been behind the cure all along?

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Sherwin

  • Keeper of Bees
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1567
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2005, 03:51:00 PM »
I guess that in many ways it seems to me that any vaccine is better than no vaccine. Though I doubt I will ever get a flu vaccine I have had them for many other things. Just think of what the polio vaccine did for humans around the world, yes it made some of them sick but by and large it was safe, much safer than not having it. Though I'm a late baby boomer I still recall hearing my folks talking in hushed voices about people they knew who had gotten that dreaded disease. Many diseases have been virtually wiped out by vaccines, can there be any doubt that the knowledge to make them came from God?

In the flu epidemic of 1918/1919 18+ million people lost their lives, including my fathers mother. Oh what they would have given for hope back then.

RichardS

[This message has been edited by Richard Sherwin (edited 11-04-2005).]

Laughter is an instant vacation

WendyForsyth

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2410
    • http://
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2005, 11:44:00 PM »
I'm one that tends to have mixed feelings about vaccines. A necessary evil perhaps?

I would never for example allow my children to be exposed to:

smallpox
polio
whooping cough
mumps
meningitis
and a few others I can't think of.

But there are other diseases that our bodies do okay making antibodies to, such as chicken pox and Hep.B is another that I don't believe should be given at infancy.

So it isn't an issue that is black and white. At least not in my humble opinion.

I have no doubt that God considers you to be one of His friends; otherwise He would not trust you with so many crosses, sufferings and humiliations. Crosses are God's means of drawing souls closer to Himself.

Fenelon


Liane H

  • Regular Member
  • Posts: 2365
    • http://
Re: Immunizations
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2005, 02:27:00 AM »
It was interesting to note when I was at the doctor's office I asked the nurse that with me having diabetes and being in the risk group should I get the flu shot. I told her I have not been given one for many years, get maybe a mild symptoms. I looked to her and she shook her head no.

It makes one wonder, does it not?

Like WendyF I have mix feelings about some things regarding vaccines and flu shots. I have thought of it as the lesser of two evils.

It is interesting to note and would have to look it up again, but the smallpox vaccine wears off after years and many of us are no longer immune to it. As well there is not enough of the vaccine to give to people and those of us that are older are at risk of dying from the injection even if it was available.

Sure a mix bag to me.

Liane, the Zoo Mama

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.