Author Topic: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)  (Read 41006 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 39898
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
First suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in Washington State
« Reply #80 on: January 13, 2004, 07:15:00 PM »
There is a very real risk of transferring CJD when operating on a patient with the disease. The instruments are very contagious. This has happened. How about the instruments used to slaughter and process the American Mad Cow? When they came in contact with the BSE prions, they became instruments to pass the prions to meat from other animals being processed. This would include machines used to grind meat at other sites such as restaurants or meat markets. There is also the real possibility of cross contamination to other foods.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Suzanne

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1297
First suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in Washington State
« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2004, 10:05:00 AM »
Facts About the Brain and Nervous System

"...The brain is the capital of the body, the seat of all the nervous forces and of mental action. The nerves proceeding from the brain control the body. By the brain nerves, mental impressions are conveyed to all the nerves of the body as by telegraph wires; and they control the vital action of every part of the system. All the organs of motion are governed by the communications they receive from the brain." -Ellen White, My Life Today, p. 148.

Brothers and sisters, this statement reminds us of something we perhaps already know. Nerves from the brain and spinal cord run all through the body. In animals the process may not be as sophisticated, etc.,(they cannot think, etc.) but the principle applies. Hence, when animals with Mad Cow are passed on to the consumer after the brain and spinal cord are removed should be a cause of grave concern. Nerves from the brain run all through its body.

"Disease in cattle is making meat eating a dangerous matter. The Lord's curse is upon the earth, upon man, upon beasts, upon the fish in the sea; and as transgression becomes almost universal, the curse will be permitted to become as broad and as deep as the transgression. Disease is contacted by the use of meat. The diseased flesh of these dead carcasses is sold in the market places, and disease among men is the sure result.

"The Lord would bring His people into a position where they will not touch or taste the flesh of dead animals...There is no safety in the eating of the flesh of dead animals, and in a short time the milk of the cows will also be excluded from the diet of God's commandment-keeping people. In a short time it will not be safe to use anything that comes from the animal creation...." Ellen White, Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 411.

~Suzanne~  


Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 39898
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
First suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in Washington State
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2004, 10:35:00 AM »
Thank you for that very good quote, Sister Suzanne. Some reading may not be familiar with the truth that God sent to this world over a hundred years ago. Seventh-day Adventists who have this light and are not walking in it need to ask for grace to do so. Those with children need to recognise their responsibilities. The situation is such that you do not need to be a Seventh-day Adventist to understand the danger.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ele Holmes

  • Moderator at Rest
  • Posts: 1491
First suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in Washington State
« Reply #83 on: January 15, 2004, 05:19:00 PM »
Suzanne,  I just read on the front page of this internet, just before I started reading your post:  "Brain Sandwiches Still on Some Menus".  Evansville, Indiana....Fear of Mad Cow Disease hasn't kept Cecilia Coan from eating deep fried cow brain sandwiches.  She is more concerned about what the cholesterol will do to her heart, than suffering the brain-wasting disease found in a cow in Washington.  "I think I'll have hardening of the arteries before I have Mad Cow Disease", said 40 year old Cecilia as she picked up a brain sandwich to go at the Hilltop Inn during her lunch hour.  "This is better than snails.  A little Mad Cow hysteria won't scare this crowd" she said. "Your going to die anyway"  These sandwiches are also popular in California, in cities such as Stockton.  Cow brain is commonly sold as taco filling, and also around the border towns.  The cow brain would have to be cooked to about 1200 degrees to kill the rogue proteins called prions that cause the disease.  "It will take more than one case of Mad Cow Disease however to keep______ a 45 year pipefitter from Evensville, eating the brain sandwich he's enjoyed since a child."
I think I will get sick......God help us
to abide by your statutes, your warnings through Ellen G. White.  Help us to prepare our bodies for translation.  Help us to prepare our bodies for the heaven menu.  Thank you Heavenly Father .  Ele HOlmes
I do not understand ICQ, cookies, UBB, HTML, homepage???

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2004, 07:19:00 AM »
If they are interested enough to do the following it is my bet that they know much more then what they are sharing with us. They try to play it down, but I feel it is a much bigger issue than they will admit.
=====================
In wake of mad cow, limits on cattle feed
FDA bans use of cattle blood, poultry droppings The Associated Press
Updated: 1:56 a.m. ET Jan. 27, 2004WASHINGTON - The government is outlawing the use of cattle blood in livestock feed and cow brains and other parts in dietary supplements, part of broader restrictions in wake of the nation's first known case of mad cow disease.

advertisement

The Food and Drug Administration announced steps late Monday to close loopholes in its livestock feed ban -- a key protection against spread of the brain-wasting disease in cattle -- and to make sure that people don't consume risky animal parts in processed foods and supplements.

"Firewalls have been in place for many years," said FDA Commissioner Mark McClellan. "The steps we're taking today are intended to provide even greater security."

The government maintains the food supply is safe despite last month's discovery of an infected cow imported from Canada, because the animal's brain, spinal cord and certain other tissues -- parts that carry the disease -- were removed before the meat was processed.

Still, the Agriculture Department soon took steps to increase meat safety, including a meatpacking ban on so-called downer cattle like the infected Holstein and restrictions on mechanical slaughter techniques that could contaminate beef with nervous system tissue.

On Monday, the FDA made its own rules for processed food conform with those new restrictions to provide extra assurance that products like canned soups or frozen pizza won't be made with downer cattle or mechanically separated beef.

Also, cosmetics and dietary supplements can't be made with potentially infectious cow parts, FDA said. In recent years, some supplements have claimed to harbor cow brains.

 FACT FILE  Battling mad cow disease

Steps planned by U.S. officials to help protect the food supply from bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE)
• 'Downer' cattle
• Test and hold
• Advanced meat recovery (AMR)
• Cattle tracking system
• Specified risk material (SRMs)
• Air stun guns
• Further bans on feed

  All cows considered non-ambulatory -- those that cannot walk by themselves -- when they reach a slaughter facility will be banned from human consumption. Even so, the USDA will continue to test them for BSE.

The meat of any animal selected for BSE testing by USDA inspectors will be held until the test results return as negative. (It can currently be sent into the food supply.)
Any animal condemned by inspectors for signs of 'systemic disease' during pre-slaughter inspections is barred from use for food.

In this process, machinery is used to remove muscle tissue from cow skeletons.
The USDA has called for more testing of AMR products, since some outlawed brain and spinal tissue has been found in this meat during testing. The agency will also ban AMR techniques on skulls and spinal columns of cows older than 30 months.

The USDA says it will speed up development of a system already being planned to identify and track all head of cattle in the United States. Groups inside and outside the beef industry have long called for a national tracking system.

Parts of some cattle known to be at high risk of transferring the proteins that cause mad cow disease will be banned from human food.
SRMs will include include brains, eyes, skulls, spinal cords and some other neural tissue of cows older than 30 months. Small intestines of all cattle will be banned.

The USDA also wants better procedures to ensure all these parts are separated from human supply.

Air-injection stunning devices will be banned. These guns use high pressure to ram an air blast, often through a bolt, into a cow's brain, killing it instantly. They make the slaughter process more humane, but can force bits of brain tissue into the rest of the animal, potentially tainting its meat.
The industry has been phasing out these devices and the USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service was already working on a rule to prohibit them.

The FDA currently prohibits the feeding of mammal protein to ruminant animals, such as cows, sheep and goats. But the feed can be given to other livestock, and their protein can be fed back to cattle.
The agency may face pressure to strengthen its ban, for example to prohibit the use of all high-risk cattle parts in any animal feed.
Source: MSNBC • Printable version
Worries about feed
But the nation's main defense against mad cow disease is a 1997 ban on giving cattle feed made from the protein or bone meal of sheep or certain other mammals -- because that feed is considered the way the deadly disease originally spread in Britain and other countries.

Critics have long worried about some big loopholes: Cows could be fed blood from slaughtered cattle, usually as a milk replacement for calves. That exemption was allowed even though for years Americans possibly exposed to mad cow-tainted beef in other countries haven't been allowed to donate blood, for fear the disease could spread that way. Last month, the British government announced that a man who died from the human form of mad cow disease may have been infected through a transfusion.

Also, cow parts are allowed in pig and poultry feed -- and until now, chicken waste could be swept up and added to cattle feed, meaning cows could indirectly be exposed.

Among FDA's actions are new rules for cattle feed that:

Prohibit mammalian blood and blood products from being fed to cattle or other ruminant animals.
Ban chicken waste from livestock feed.
Ban the use of uneaten meat and other scraps from large restaurants from being recycled into cattle feed.
Require factories that make both livestock feed and feed for other animals that uses bovine ingredients to have separate production lines to guard against accidental contamination.
 Related stories
Beef industry unveils post-mad cow ads

Mad cow disease bodes well for bison biz

U.S. has no plans to test all cattle
'Mistakes can still happen'
To ensure the rules are followed, FDA this year will increase inspections of feed mills and renderers, conducting 2,800 inspections and contracting with states for an additional 3,800.

The agency's steps are an improvement but don't go far enough, said Caroline Smith DeWaal of the consumer advocacy group Center for Science in the Public Interest. The main problem: Poultry and pigs can still eat feed made from cow remains, so what's to prevent a farmer from accidentally mixing up the feed?

"They have more protections, but when you get down to the farm level, mistakes can still happen," she said.

FDA's announcement came as Agriculture Department's chief veterinarian said he expects many of the infected Holstein's herdmates will never be found.

The department has been searching for 80 animals that were raised in Alberta, Canada, and shipped to the United States in 2001 with the Holstein that wound up in Mabton.

Veterinarian Ron DeHaven said officials now are focusing on what happened to 25 of the Canadian-born animals raised within a two-year window of the Holstein's birth, because they would be most likely to have eaten the same, possibly contaminated feed. Officials have located 14 of them, he said.

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press.

With Christian Love,
Marie

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2004, 07:24:00 AM »
Cow herds quarantined in three States

Officials investigate links in Wash., Oregon and IdahoThe Associated Press
Updated: 6:32 p.m. ET Jan. 23, 2004WASHINGTON - Herds of cows are under quarantine in three states, and agriculture officials still lack full accounting of meat that was recalled after discovery of mad cow disease in the United States a month ago.

advertisement

Cows with links to the Holstein diagnosed with the brain-wasting disease have been found in Washington, Oregon and Idaho. More than 600 animals have been destroyed in the course of the investigation.

The disease has not been detected from tests on roughly 150 of those animals.

“It’s not unusual for an investigation of this type to have multiple states involved,” said Agriculture Department spokeswoman Julie Quick.

Investigators continue to look for about 70 cows that could have come to the United States from the same Alberta, Canada, farm where the sick Holstein was born in 1997. Suspicion focuses on those animals because scientists believe feed containing protein from infected animals is the most likely source of transmission of the disease.

INTERACTIVE
 
Mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, is a threat because humans can develop a similar brain-wasting illness, a variant of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, from eating contaminated beef products.

Is the beef supply safe?
Agriculture officials have insisted that the U.S. beef supply is safe, but they nevertheless recommended a recall of more than 10,000 pounds of meat from the sick cow and other animals slaughtered with it on Dec. 9.

USDA officials said the parts most likely to carry infection — brain, spinal cord and lower intestine — were removed before the meat from the infected cow was cut and processed for human consumption.

Most of the meat went to suppliers and stores in Oregon and Washington, while small amounts reached California, Idaho, Montana and Nevada. As of Thursday, USDA officials said they did not know how many pounds of beef had been returned.

Some probably was consumed in the 14 days between the animal’s slaughter and the mad cow diagnosis, they said.


With Christian Love,
Marie

JohnH

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 106
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #86 on: January 27, 2004, 09:00:00 AM »
I read a similar article earlier today, and almost gagged when they talked about how it's common practice to put poultry litter/chicken poop in cattle feed.

To think I used to eat recycled chicken poop.  Yuck.  The things these people do!

------------------
Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe His prophets, so shall ye prosper. -- 2 Chronicles 20:20

Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe His prophets, so shall ye prosper. -- 2 Chronicles 20:20

Suzanne

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1297
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2004, 09:10:00 AM »
Thanks, Sr. Glass for all the important info on the subject! Here is an adaptation of an article in the Adventist Review, January 22, 2004.

Who's Really Mad--The Cow or Us?

Over 30 countries have banned U.S. beef products, accounting for more than 90 percent of beef exports. Unfortuneately our government continues to play down the issue encouraging consumers to purchase and eat this highly suspect article of food.

At the same time the powers that be say there is no evidence that the disease can be transmitted through cow's milk and insists that milk from a diseased cow is safe.

In the U.S. the gross receipts from the sale of cattle and calves in 2000 totaled $40.76 billion, accounting for 21 percent of all agricultural receipts. This makes the beef sector the largest single agricultural enterprise.

The article questions how much confidence can be placed in government agencies that hold such a vested interest in the continued sale of these products.

~Suzanne~


Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 39898
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
First suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in Washington State
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2004, 08:46:00 AM »
United States beef will not be imported into Russia.  A ruling, signed by  Gennadiy Onishchenko, requires meat importers to demand documents from their suppliers certifying that no cases of mad cow disease had been identified in their countries. At the moment Russia has a ban on meat imports from Sweden, Norway and Belgium and beef imports from the United States.

Russian Restrictions

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
First suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in Washington State
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2004, 10:12:00 AM »
Sometimes we wonder how people can eat these things. But the Bible says, "so a man thinketh, so is he." Man's thinking about God, family, life, death, entertainment, love, kindness (or lack of it), etc... is so down in the hole now days, and the things he eats is just an extention of what he thinks, it too, is down in the hole.

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

[This message has been edited by Sister Glass (edited 02-02-2004).]

With Christian Love,
Marie

Liane H

  • Regular Member
  • Posts: 2365
    • http://
First suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in Washington State
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2004, 05:53:00 AM »
Those of us that came from the world and have found God and His Word for our lives sometimes forget how we bridged that line from death to life.

If someone had told me that I would give up lobster or pork chops I would have laughed them in the face, including God. When we grow up living and eating a certain way, we do not see that there can or could be another way.

The Bible says the "people perish for lack of knowledge of God." Everyday I thank my Father for the truths that we have been blessed with, even though at times I do stumble from time to time.

It is like those that were raised in the SDA church, they have known no other way. Some who were raised pure vegetarians could never think of biting down on flesh of an animal.

Today I could never dream of eating lobster or pork chops. I gave up beef years ago, but yet I still need help from God to not eat chicken or turkey and an occasional lamb chop.

We are already on that the road where we no longer can take the risks of even eating these clean meats. There just is not enough inspectors to keep up with the demand aof the inspections to be sure that what we are eating is safe.

For many SDA's giving up clean meats is a hard sell because we are told in the Word that we can eat it. Many just have not gotten to the point where the SOP has shown us that there has to be a day that we have to do so.

Liane  

Liane, the Zoo Mama
Romans 8:19   For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 39898
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2004, 06:07:00 PM »
Mad cows are still in Portugal. Health authorities on Portugal's mid-Atlantic Azores islands have confirmed a case of mad cow disease in the offspring of an animal imported from Germany. News.com.au

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Ele Holmes

  • Moderator at Rest
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #92 on: March 05, 2004, 07:38:00 AM »
Every Thursday evening 3ABN has a LIVE two hour program.... Last night Howard Lyman was on and he up-dated us on the progress of Mad Cow disease.  It was very educating....some of the main points were: 1. Defintely there is much disease in U.S. and many more problems developing.  2. He very clearly stated that if you don't grow your own vegetables, only buy certified organic in the stores because of the process of how they are growing vegetables. 3. They are poisoning our strawberries, potatoes, and many others. 4. Another point is that the capsulls you take with vitamins could be made of pork. Open the capsull and put it on your food, if you need to take vitamins, or any pill in a capsull
  They usually do a repeat on Sunday afternoon, about 1 or 2 PM California time. If so I will make a copy.  If you get 3ABN please watch it, you will learn very much about the Mad Cow.  Also Howard is writing another book on the progress....His first one is "The Mad Cowboy"
I do not understand ICQ, cookies, UBB, HTML, homepage???

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2004, 07:59:00 AM »
For someone taking medication for grand mal seizures, could they take this medicine and put it in food? This is something I have taken since I was 15. It does the job for me and I would hate to mess that up. But I have been thinking about capsules having gelatin (made with pork) in them. I'm concerned as to how to handle the problem. Any ideas?

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Ele Holmes

  • Moderator at Rest
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2004, 05:13:00 PM »
Happy Sabbath Sister Marie,
  Get the address of the company that supplies your capsules and write to them  asking what they are made of.  They will tell you.  If you have to take capsules buy the empty ones at a health food store with the ingredients printed on the package and transfer your pills into another capsule. A lot of work but it may be worth it.  God Bless you ....Ele
I do not understand ICQ, cookies, UBB, HTML, homepage???

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #95 on: March 10, 2004, 09:42:00 PM »
Thanks Ele. I do have some of those empty veggie ones. But am concerned if the melt as well as the other ones. It is a vital issue to get this stuff in my systems at all times. I have suffered greatly once when I took charcole for stomach problems. It wiped everything out of my system, good and bad and I had a awful grand mal spell that night and ended up in the hosp. I almost lost my licence to drive because I kept telling the dr. that I was taking my medicine faithfully, yet they found nothing there. Then he heard my son and I talking about the charcole I took the night before, and he told us how dangerous it is for me to use that because it takes all my medication our of my body. So you see, I am really careful now if I make any changes that could effect this medication.

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #96 on: March 10, 2004, 09:46:00 PM »
U.S. plans many more mad cow tests Up to 300,000 cows may be tested each year
By Jon Bonné
MSNBC
Updated: 9:08 p.m. ET March 09, 2004
The federal government plans to increase testing for mad cow disease by tenfold or more, according to a testing company official. Such a plan would improve chances of catching additional cases, though critics say it may not go far enough.

Read it all at:   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4489684/

------------------
With Christian Love,
Sister Marie

With Christian Love,
Marie

Sister Marie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7586
  • May God's Light Shine On Us All
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2004, 01:40:00 PM »
In California………………

Worried that a foreign embargo on U.S. beef will ruin the state's cattle industry, state lawmakers may soon introduce legislation to make California the first state to set broader and faster testing for mad cow disease.

Read it all at:  http://www.sacbee.com/content/business/agriculture/story/8491741p-9420617c.html

With Christian Love,
Marie

Richard Myers

  • Servant
  • Posts: 39898
  • A glorious sunset teaches of trust and faith.....
    • The Remnant Online
First suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in Washington State
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2004, 12:47:00 PM »
For those new to the faith, it could be understood, but for those long in the faith and who care about their health and the health of their children, there is enough evidence to realize the danger.

The U.S. government is repeating the efforts of England in an effort to calm the fears of eating meat. Japan has enough sense to realize the need to test each cow, but the U.S. says there is no need. The present system is good enough.

The question as to the condition of the Washington State cow is being covered up in this attempt to quiet fears. Seattle Times

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Bill Wennell

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 337
Re: Mad Cow Disease (BSE)
« Reply #99 on: February 07, 2005, 04:12:00 AM »
Sorry, I was gone for a while but I'm back now. As a USDA Meat Inspector (and SDA) I am in a position to see prophecy becoming fact. It is a shame that most (though not all) of Seventh-day Adventists are disregarding the prophecies made against eating products and by-products of animal origin due to disease. There is not enough room in this forum to re-print Counsels on Diets and Foods, and we should be aware of what this book says (and NOT what the General Conference says what this book says - That is, that lacto-ovo vegetarianism is the church "norm").

Even on 3ABN and Adventist evangelism, we find references to the normal use of products containing animal when we could be using alternative products that contain no animal parts. If we are to come apart and be seperate, we will appear "fanatical" even to our fellow church members. But we must do so in order to obey what we know to be right and correct in accordance with the counsel given.

The following are links to sites that present a true picture of the growing problem. This one problem (prions in animal products) has the capability of infecting from both food and medicinal venues. Will we believe and follow man or God?

For up-to-date links to BSE/CWD/CJD disease:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow.htm

BSE has been in the US since 1985 CONFIRMED!:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1826023&dopt=Abstract

Temperatures over 1,200 degrees F incapable of destroying prions:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10716712&dopt=Abstract

Mad pigs? (in US):
http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~tom/mad_pigs.html

Mad mink? (in US):
http://www.priondata.org/data/A_tme.html

CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) in deer (in US) & deaths of hunters:
http://cfapp.rockymountainnews.com/cwd/killer/index.cfm

Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine on Madcow:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/madcow_facts.html

Tons of information on Madcow & other diseases from milk:
http://www.notmilk.com/

International Meat Crisis PDF on-line book:
http://www.worldincrisis.org/Harvestime-Books/International-Meat-Crisis.pdf

Madcow USA PDF on-line book:
http://www.prwatch.org/books/madcow.html

What is in the (non-meat) foods your eating?:
http://remnant-online.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000086.html

Questions?
Got milk?

------------------
Bill Wennell
BiblicalTruths2000@Juno.com

Bill Wennell<BR>Medical-missionary Brazil<BR>BiblicalTruths2000@Juno.com