Author Topic: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions  (Read 2970 times)

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Richard Myers

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Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« on: January 02, 2017, 06:15:33 AM »
Published Dec. 15, 2016 in Outlook  the MAU magazine.

The Mid-America Union Conference executive committee, after reviewing the “Unity in Mission” document voted by the General Conference executive committee at the 2016 Annual Council, wishes to express the following thoughts about this action:

    We share the need for and pray for worldwide unity and mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
    We affirm the document’s call to mutual listening, consultation, and prayer as we work together over differences.
    We, as a Protestant organization, believe the true authority of our church lies with the local members comprising our churches. Furthermore, we recognize our working policies delegate authority to our constituencies as voted by our church members.
    We believe all members and entities in the church should be held accountable when needed by the constituencies to which they are responsible, as has been outlined by our church’s working policies. We see this as paramount, because to do otherwise would be a departure from our Protestant heritage. By staying with and following our long-held policies for accountability, the appearance or threat of kingly power is held in check.
    We express grave concern with the Unity Document’s establishing working policy as on par with our fundamental beliefs. Whereas policy is made for the organizing of our church for the purpose of mission, our fundamental beliefs speak to the Biblical truths we hold as a people.

   We are alarmed by the “Unity in Mission” document and object to the direction it is taking our church. True unity will not be achieved based on voted policies, but rather through showing our spirit of “Christlike forbearance,” as Ellen White counsels us to do.


How long has the rebellion been active? How long have conferences been going contrary to their bylaws, the world church constitution, and the Word of God? Forbearance? God has been more than patient, and so has the church, towards the rebellious conferences.

The MAUC executive committee voted the following statement:

"We affirm our prior voted action regarding our support of women in ministry and believe there is no biblical barrier for ordaining women."


Gary Thurber, the union president said “These are serious times.“ "And right now it is important for us to speak our concerns. God has a plan and a way forward. I don’t know what it is yet, but He has a plan.”

Speaking concerns is one thing, voting to go contrary to the Word of God and the World Church is rebellion  against God and His church. Has the Mid America union been ordaining women pastors? It was the first union in the NAD to vote to do so in 2012. Thus, it was a leader in the rebellion against God and His church.

The Mid America Union is part of the organization of world churches. They do not stand apart from the sisterhood of churches. The doctrinal beliefs of God's church are not decided be each church or each conference, but by a representative government. When decisions are voted by this representative government, they are law to be followed by all churches. And when the law they are organized under is not followed, then what shall happen to the organization they have agreed to be a part of. This is not a hard subject, but one that has been left out of the discussion we are reading about.

It appears Elder Gary Thurber has been careful to not cross the line and join in the rebellion. For this we are thankful. We love him and pray for him and his fellow ministers in the Mid America Union. May they give much prayer to the decisions they make in what Elder Thurber has called "serious times."  Precious souls hang in the balance.

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2017, 07:21:41 AM »

This sounds a bit like the protest submitted by some of the democrats after the presidential election. Since they do not like the outcome they wish to claim victory through popular vote from San Francisco.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

Richard Myers

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2017, 07:43:59 AM »
Yes, cp. And, it goes further. There are many in California that want the state to secede from the union after the nation elected Trump. Is that not another parallel which appears on the horizon?
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2017, 08:00:01 AM »
It is interesting that they are "alarmed " that when the Mid American Union ( and others) go against their own by-laws and against the repeated decision of the world church that it would be voiced by higher church authority, that there will be consequences. This is what is alarming. Mr. Thurber does not know where things are heading ? While we do not have all the specific details we have an Inspired outline. None need be blind sided by this.

Pastor Dwight Nelson has voiced his opinion that the work will not be finished until women get their just due as pastors. It is my opinion that those who hold to that opinion will make the same statement regarding practicing homosexuals. Some are already implying as much.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

colporteur

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2017, 10:37:49 AM »
Some of this is very subtle and sneaky.  The Iowa/ Missouri conference gives impression on the surface that it is conservative but leadership has slid consistently since president Wampler retired. The current president is often out of the country on a mission. The executive secretary and previous ministerial director, Robert Wagley is more or less the acting president much of the time. President Cordian was interviewed by Steve Wolberg as it appears that he is conservative. Meanwhile Robert Wagley, the planter of new ideas, has a mission for contemporary worship. I have seen him in action up close and personal several times as I grew up in Iowa and was a member there for several years before moving. I have observed as Dean Cordain went from being a pastor under Robert Wagley ( ministerial director) to becoming president over him. I could say more but suffice to say they have partnered together for some time. Some may know that Mr. Wagley invited  SDA speaker Keaven Haden ( former SDA) to speak at our campmeeting. Things were so tense there that they even checked at the door what papers people brought in. Some of the elderly left in tears as Haden mocked "Sister Moses." Mr. Wagley also invited Doug Kitchner to Mason City Iowa for a pilot program. I think I still have a copy of Kitchner's article somewhere and it wreaked of entirely converting worship to contemporary change, removing pews, inviting emotional break outs with mics staged everywhere and where emotions rather than doctrine would drive the service. You get the idea.  The laity has been somewhat resistant of such change but they keep pushing it. I and another elder called Kitcher on his contemporary push much to the dismay of our pastor.  My point in bringing this up is that some of these conferences, are very adept at giving impression on the surface that they are good, old fashioned traditional SDAs  when they are not. Those who watch closely and attend venues that are experimental see right through the smoke screen. The Dakota Conference is the very same. I can only speak about conferences that I have had first hand experience with. These two conferences are very much women's ordination proponents they just do not broadcast it real loud.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

ejclark

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2017, 02:42:09 PM »
Priesthood of All Believers by Rex Edwards is beginning to circulate. Anyone else know what is taught in this paper?

Richard Myers

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2017, 08:07:31 PM »
ej, here is where he was 15 years ago. Ministry Magazine
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Sister Mŕrie Wiese

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2017, 03:14:54 AM »
I recall having talks with Esther Knott on Facebook. She pushed WO very heavy and was herself ordained under "rebellion type" situations. I mentioned to her then that the future exceptance of transgender issues would come on the heals of WO. Oh no, she said, they are two seprate issues. I told her time will tell. Look where we sit today. I believe these people are like the world in that they will except "rights" for all, except those those who hold up the Truth. The Truth they are not interested in when it goes against what they want.
Pastor Nelson is such a good Preacher in that he knows how to hold interest, but he does not teach Truth concerning WO. There are several things that make us cry  for our Church now days.

colporteur

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2017, 05:23:17 AM »
Sister Marie, it never stops with one issue. WO does not stand alone. People support WO because they do not support the Bible over culture. Dwight is also in favor of rewriting the SOP ( Messiah) in order to reach people. While the intention may be good dumbing down the gospel rather than calling people up to the standard has always been a problem among God's people.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

Sister Mŕrie Wiese

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2017, 09:11:15 AM »
It is all so sad. I heard today that CA. As of Jan. 1, 2017, is making it alright for childrren to seek sex for money. The police canLuke 17:26 no longer arrest them. Won't pimps have a hay day now.

colporteur

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2017, 09:38:07 AM »
It is all so sad. I heard today that CA. As of Jan. 1, 2017, is making it alright for childrren to seek sex for money. The police canLuke 17:26 no longer arrest them. Won't pimps have a hay day now.

From what I can tell it is still illegal for pimps but not for youth. That sounds good on the surface that a 7 year old girl will not be prosecuted as a criminal. However, it appears that a 17 year old girl can sell her body and that will be legal for her. Surely this is chipping away at the laws against prostitution.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

colporteur

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2017, 10:04:51 AM »


The  Mid American Union quoted the following as a reason to let each one do what is right in his own eyes.

 “The church may pass resolution upon resolution to put down all disagreement of opinions, but we cannot force the mind and will and thus root out disagreement. These resolutions may conceal the discord, but they cannot quench it and establish a perfect agreement. Nothing can perfect unity in the church but the spirit of Christlike forbearance.” (MS 24, 1892)

That same quote misapplied opens the door for absolutely everything. They are basically admitting by applying this quote to the WO situation that rebellion will not stop until it gets its own way. We have seen in action how conceding to the wishes of a spoiled child only emboldens them to push further and they are NEVER happy. 
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

ejclark

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 07:38:03 PM »
ej, here is where he was 15 years ago. Ministry Magazine
Compared to what he's written now, looks like he's been learning how to incorporate Catholic theology into his original ideas.
"Priesthood of all Believers" is full of Catholic sacrament and ecumenical mysticism.

ejclark

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2017, 09:10:30 AM »


The  Mid American Union quoted the following as a reason to let each one do what is right in his own eyes.

 “The church may pass resolution upon resolution to put down all disagreement of opinions, but we cannot force the mind and will and thus root out disagreement. These resolutions may conceal the discord, but they cannot quench it and establish a perfect agreement. Nothing can perfect unity in the church but the spirit of Christlike forbearance.” (MS 24, 1892)

That same quote misapplied opens the door for absolutely everything. They are basically admitting by applying this quote to the WO situation that rebellion will not stop until it gets its own way. We have seen in action how conceding to the wishes of a spoiled child only emboldens them to push further and they are NEVER happy.
I believe here in our conference this issue is getting ready to come front and center. And yes Colporteur, they are taking this quote out of context.
Quote
Christ prayed that His disciples might be one, even as He and His Father are one. In what does this unity consist? That oneness does not consist in everyone having the same disposition, the very same temperament, that makes all run in the very same channel. All do not possess the same degree of intelligence. All have not the same experience. In a church there are different gifts and varied experiences. In temporal matters there is a great variety of ways of management, and yet none of these variations in manner of labor, in exercise of gifts, need to create dissension and discord and disunion. One man may be conversant with the Scriptures, and some particular portion of the Scripture is especially appreciated by him because he has seen it in a certain striking light; another sees another portion as very important; and thus one and another presents the very points to the people that appear of highest value. This is all in the order of God. One man blunders in his interpretation of some portion of the Scripture, but shall this cause diversity and disunion? God forbid. We cannot then take a position that the unity of the church consists in viewing every text of Scripture in the very same shade of light.  {15MR 149.2} 

The church may pass resolution upon resolution to put down all disagreement of opinions, but we cannot force the mind and will, and thus root out disagreement. These resolutions may conceal the discord but they cannot quench it and establish a perfect agreement. Nothing can perfect a perfect unity in the church but the spirit of Christlike forbearance. Satan can sow discord; Christ alone can harmonize the disagreeing elements. Then let every soul sit down in Christ's school and learn of Christ who declares Himself to be meek and lowly of heart; and Christ declares that if we learn of Him, then our worries will cease, and we shall find rest to our souls.  {15MR 150.1} 
Mrs. White isn't talking about our understanding in doctrine, she is talking about temporal ways in applying doctrine in our culture today. It makes it very easy for them to promote their error when they don't include all the context.

For anyone interested in reading what Rex Edwards teaches about the priesthood of all believers, it can be read here.

https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/pdf/Edwards-Priesthood_of_believers.pdf

I was dismayed at the ecumenical and catholic resources he believes is teaching Biblical truth.

Richard Myers

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Re: Mid America Union Moving to Join Rebellion
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2018, 11:36:14 PM »
Mid America Union leadership pushing for the ordination of women.

Nov 16, 2018   Outlook   Mid America Unioin

Following the president’s report, a motion was brought to the Executive Committee by Dakota Conference president Neil Biloff. He asked that an item be placed on MAUC’s regularly scheduled 2021 Constituency Session agenda stating the desire to provide ordination opportunities for all pastors in Mid-America, both male and female.

The motion followed a lengthy discussion of recent actions voted by the General Conference at its Annual Council last month and by the North America Division last week at its Year-end Meeting. Copies of the document  voted by the GC Executive Committee and the NAD’s response were included with each MAUC Executive Committee member’s information packet.

“People are hearing conflicting messages,” said Thurber. “Many are confused about what is actually happening and what is being said and what it means.” He shared with the committee a few examples of misinformation and added that “our conference presidents are doing a good job of explaining the true story.”
A question of time

While some members of the committee would have preferred a shorter timeframe in the motion for discussing ordination opportunities, Thurber pointed out the logic for the timing, stating that members and leaders of all six conferences will have ample time to explore the various considerations in depth. “We don’t want to move ahead of our constituents,” said Thurber. “No one will be pressured to vote either way.”

Central States Conference president Roger Bernard spoke in favor of the timeframe proposed, stating that it would give him adequate opportunity to talk with Central States members.

The longer timeframe will also allow for General Conference administration to respond to the NAD’s three requests, and will follow actions that may be taken during the 2020 GC Session in Indianapolis.

Mic Thurber, MAUC ministerial director, stated that while he personally resonated with moving ahead more quickly, “giving the GC the opportunity to respond to the NAD’s thoughtful action regarding the recent AC vote might provide the most peaceful way forward.”

The president asked if any members would prefer a secret ballot process, but none requested this option, so a voice vote was taken. The motion carried as proposed with very strong support.[/color]
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: Mid America Union Concerned Over GC Actions
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2018, 06:23:40 PM »
Not surprising. I have talked with Biloff at length and have been in the midst of the pastors he has been bringing in from Walla Walla and Union. They could not be much more confused than they are. They do not even believe our core message.
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.