Author Topic: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council  (Read 3795 times)

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Mimi

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Richard Myers

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2016, 08:04:24 AM »
Amen!  Thanks for posting this information, Mimi.


General Conference Secretariat has released two documents about church governance and unity that are to be considered by church leadership at the Annual Council business meeting in October......

“During Annual Council this year we plan to discuss how best to address divergence from the current policy,” General Conference executive secretary G.T. Ng said Friday in an e-mail to members of the General Conference Executive Committee, comprised of church leaders from around the world who will gather at church headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland, for Annual Council on Oct. 5 to 12. “Please prayerfully review these documents as they provide a foundation for these discussions.”


After a quick reading of a portion of one of the documents. Here is what I find to be encouraging. The General Conference is well aware of the rebellion taking place in some divisions. Some leaders in these divisions have not been faithful and what we see here is a continuing effort to help them realize the danger they are in.

“the right to permit the extension of a licensed pastor’s authority rests first with the division executive committee, it must approve the extension by specifically and clearly defining the additional functions that that licensed pastor may perform . . . . After the division committee acts, the conference committee may act.” It then expressly forbids the “conference committee [to] extend the functions of a licensed pastor beyond what has been authorized by the division committee.” Indeed, it adds: “A conference committee action cannot be
substituted for church election or ordination to gospel ministry.” (Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual [19th ed., rev. 2015, updated 2016], 33.


Union conference committees have been going beyond what is allowed. The division is responsible. Daniel Jackson is the one who is most responsible for the rebellion taking place world-wide. As president of the NAD he is responsible for not only allowing, but encouraging the rebellion. The GC has been slow to deal with the rebellion. It continues to spread as we see with the NPUC vote yesterday. We are encouraged by what is taking place in preparation to discuss the matter at Annual Council in October.
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Wally

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2016, 04:37:56 PM »
This is very hopeful news.

https://news.adventist.org/en/all-news/news/go/2016-09-25/church-governance-and-unity-to-be-discussed-at-annual-council/

Yes, but will they really  do anything?  It's been over a year and the rebellious entities have suffered no consequences for their rebellion.  Sandra Roberts is still the illegitimate president of the SE Calif. Conf.  Other unions and conferences continue to defy the vote at San Antonio.  So far, all we've heard is talk of grave consequences.  What should those consequences be, and does the Annual Council have the will to implement them?

Oh, and by the way, Mimi, it's good to see that you are alive and well.  Been missing your comments.
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants:  we have done that which was our duty to do.  Luke 17:10

colporteur

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2016, 05:50:32 AM »
This is very hopeful news.

https://news.adventist.org/en/all-news/news/go/2016-09-25/church-governance-and-unity-to-be-discussed-at-annual-council/

Yes, but will they really  do anything?  It's been over a year and the rebellious entities have suffered no consequences for their rebellion.  Sandra Roberts is still the illegitimate president of the SE Calif. Conf.  Other unions and conferences continue to defy the vote at San Antonio.  So far, all we've heard is talk of grave consequences.  What should those consequences be, and does the Annual Council have the will to implement them?

Oh, and by the way, Mimi, it's good to see that you are alive and well.  Been missing your comments.

Yes, good to see you back Mimi !

Good point, Wally !  We can hope that something good is gearing up here but I am patent about getting too excited. The Republican party has given a lot of  lip service as to how they would not put up with this or that in government and it was all rhetoric. I hope that the axe is laid to the root here instead of just words.
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Mimi

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2016, 03:45:35 PM »
Hello, brothers. Thank you for your welcome. Hope all of you are doing well. Just stepped in for a moment to share hopeful news coming out of the GC Autumn Council. I knew you would appreciate knowing. The Lord and His people have suffered long under the rebellious conferences/unions/divisions. We pray for those involved in these meetings.

And if you wish to know how those in rebellion are reacting to the GC statements, just check out Spectrum. There are 3 articles with their summations. Don't forget to read the comments section. May the Lord change hearts and save those who are honest in their error.   
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 


Wally

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2016, 02:50:18 AM »
It seems as if Spectrum won't be satisfied until the SDA Church repudiates all of its "unconventional" or "unorthodox" doctrines, such as the Sabbath, the IJ, the non-immortality of the soul, our identification as the Remnant Church, and our belief in the SOP.  Of course if that were ever to happen, they wouldn't have anything to gripe about.  :P  But the church will not fall, so I suspect we will have the apostates at Spectrum to deal with until the end.
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants:  we have done that which was our duty to do.  Luke 17:10

Richard Myers

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2016, 07:04:34 AM »
Andrews Seminary and Loma Linda School of Religion Faculty object to Church Governance and Unity document.

"We the faculty of the Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary, affirm the biblical truth of church unity grounded in our worship of God, our common faith, our shared community, and our sense of mission. We have serious concerns about the recent document 'A Study of Church Governance and Unity' released by the General Conference and its portrayal of the nature and authority of the church. Further discussion by the church at large on this important ecclesiological issue is needed before such a document is adopted.”  Voted September 30, 2016.

It is being reported that the LLU School of Religion faculty on Oct 4 has voted unanimous support for the statement made by Andrews Seminary.

These acts are only symptoms of much deeper problems that have spread false doctrine throughout God's church. Many will be discouraged by what they now see coming from Seventh-day Adventist schools of "higher education", but it is good that eyes will be opened to where there needs to be a correction made.

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colporteur

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2016, 07:12:02 AM »

There are those who are saying that both sides are wrong on this, that the GC has taken on a kingly power position while the NAD for instance is in rebellion. What I am not hearing from these people is what they suggest that the world church do with NAD rebellion. It is easy to throw stones at both sides and come up with no answers.
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Richard Myers

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2016, 08:49:24 AM »
It is an interesting argument. I was just preparing a newsletter for October and I am discussing that situation. Who decided the unions are in rebellion. It was not a small group of men, but the world church. Who decided the rules we are governed by? The Constitution? It was not a small group of men, but the world church in session.

Are there unions in rebellion against the Constitution? Yes, there is no legitimate argument here. What are the provisions for dissolving a union?  The GC must follow what is written. The leader of the North American Division is a part of that body that is responsible for dissolving the unions. If Jackson had done his part, it would never have come to this. The Annual Council composed of delegates from around the world would be following the direction given at San Antonio. After 26 years of rebellion we can only say the world church has been long-suffering.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2016, 08:58:08 AM »
Good points
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colporteur

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2016, 10:59:34 AM »
 The reason that a few in the very conservative ranks see the GC as using " kingly power" is because the GC would apparently take over unions and appoint new leaders. Some see that as overriding the normal  process.
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Richard Myers

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2016, 11:27:43 AM »
When the normal channels are controlled by rebels, is there a provision in the Constitution to dissolve a union? If not, why not? From what I have seen, when the NAD rebelled against the world church and went contrary to their by-laws and decided to change things so a woman could become a conference president, how come the Jackson and an overwhelming majority of the delegates that voted to rebel reversed their decision? It seems to me the leadership of the world church is following the laws set in the Constitution which governs all churches and all conferences. We have seen some of the conferences disregard the law and rebel against the church. If they were follow God, then do be it. If they are not following the Word of God, then they are rebelling against God, His Word, and His church. I would not want to be in their shoes. The closest I can find in Scripture to explain what is happening is the case of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. It they were following God then God would have blessed them. But, they were not following God or His ordained leader. So it is today.

The problem of ordaining women is rebellion which is often incurable. But, it is not the underlying problem. There is something more serious.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Cop

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2016, 10:57:03 AM »
God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority. The error that some are in danger of committing is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God has invested in His church in the judgment and voice of the General Conference assembled to plan for the prosperity and advancement of His work.—Testimonies for the Church 9:260, 261 (1909). {LDE 56.1}

God has invested His church with special authority and power which no one can be justified in disregarding and despising, for he who does this despises the voice of God.—The Acts of the Apostles, 164 (1911).

When God speaks through His delegated servants the people are to listen to His words and obey the counsels given; but it is so hard for some to yield their own way, they make up their mind that God must say so and so, and are ready to reject every utterance which does not coincide with their past work and their preconceived opinions. Remember, every one, it is by what God does say to us that we shall be tried at last, not by what we imagine He ought to say. You must bring your souls up to the light, the standard of God’s Word. Let none venture to choose darkness rather than the light, and keep away from the light lest their deeds shall be reproved. He who desires truth in the inward parts has declared that only the pure in heart should see God. {Lt14-1885.30}
My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me....That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave."
— Stonewall Jackson

colporteur

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2016, 07:11:20 AM »

The GC is going to give the NAD and others in rebellion a year of grace to see if things can be worked out. I think the NAD has already had many years of grace. However, after a year perhaps the middle ground people will be able to say that the GC had to do something. We can hope that a miracle takes place in the next year however, history has shown that unfortunately patience usually only emboldens rebellion.
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Cop

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2016, 09:18:38 AM »
When I was working, many times I was called out in regards to a man, or men, who were bullying and threatening their peaceful neighbors. Always, before I became involved, the innocents always tried to placate and compromise with the bully, but he, or they, would only see weakness and fear in their victims. The threats and bullying only grew worst. Then, when the victims finally called law enforcement, the conflict only grew worst.

The bullies were used to their victims seeking peace at any cost and refusing to stand up to evil. When I arrived, I always had a much harder fight with the bullies because they did not expect anyone to stand against them. They were always angry that anyone would dare to confront them. After the inevitable fight was over, and I took them to the hospital and then to jail, I warned them that there would be no more threats against their neighbors or else I would be back. This ended the trouble as they would usually move out of the area.

It is the same with those who are trying to 'legalize' W.O. They are the bullies and those who oppose them are the friendly neighbors. I understand that most men do not like confrontation and will seek to avoid it at all costs. But in refusing to do what is immediately necessary for the good of the Church will only make things worst. Since the pro-W.O. group have made their threats to split and accused those who are standing against this in-Biblical practice of not acting in a Christ like manner, they will only see that the GC has backed down and they have "won" the war. This is how the wicked, carnal mind works. They will not see the actions of the GC as an attempt to bring peace, but as the action of a weak and fearful body.

In fearing to stand for what is true, I fear that the GC is only prolonging the inevitable fight with falsehood. It will thereby make the inevitable battle harder to win with more hard feelings than if they confronted it now. Sides are already drawn and delaying to meet the problem head-on will do no good for the Church and only make things worst.

"Shortly before I sent out the testimonies regarding the efforts of the enemy to undermine the foundation of our faith through the dissemination of seductive theories, I had read an incident about a ship in a fog meeting an iceberg. For several nights I slept but little. I seemed to be bowed down as a cart beneath sheaves. One night a scene was clearly presented before me. A vessel was upon the waters, in a heavy fog. Suddenly the lookout cried, “Iceberg just ahead!” There, towering high above the ship, was a gigantic iceberg. An authoritative voice cried out, “Meet it!” There was not a moment’s hesitation. It was a time for instant action. The engineer put on full steam, and the man at the wheel steered the ship straight into the iceberg. With a crash she struck the ice. There was a fearful shock, and the iceberg broke into many pieces, falling with a noise like thunder to the deck. The passengers were violently shaken by the force of the collisions, but no lives were lost. The vessel was injured, but not beyond repair. She rebounded from the contact, trembling from stem to stern, like a living creature. Then she moved forward on her way." {1SM 205.3}

"Well I knew the meaning of this representation. I had my orders. I had heard the words, like a voice from our Captain, “Meet it!” I knew what my duty was, and that there was not a moment to lose. The time for decided action had come. I must without delay obey the command, “Meet it!”. {1SM 206.1}


"After a long and severe conflict, the faithful few decided to dissolve all union with the apostate church if she still refused to free herself from falsehood and idolatry. They saw that separation was an absolute necessity if they would obey the word of God. They dared not tolerate errors fatal to their own souls, and set an example which would imperil the faith of their children and children’s children. To secure peace and unity they were ready to make any concession consistent with fidelity to God; but they felt that even peace would be too dearly purchased at the sacrifice of principle. If unity could be secured only by the compromise of truth and righteousness, then let there be difference, and even war.
 
Well would it be for the church and the world if the principles that actuated those steadfast souls were revived in the hearts of God’s professed people."{GC 45.3}


"Does anyone suppose that the messages of warning will not come to those whom God reproves? The ones reproved may rise up in indignation and seek to bring the law to bear upon God’s messenger, but in doing this, they are not bringing the law upon the messenger, but upon Christ, who gave the reproof and the warning. When men endanger the work and cause of God by their own wrong course of action, shall they hear no voice of reproof? If the wrongdoer only were concerned, and the work reached no farther than him, he alone should have the words of warning; but when his course of action is doing positive harm to the cause of truth, and souls are imperiled, God requires that the warning be as broad as the injury done. The testimonies will not be hindered. The words of rebuke and warning, the plain “Thus saith the Lord,” will come from God’s appointed agencies; for the words do not originate with the human instrument; they are from God, who appointed them their work. If a suit is instituted in earthly tribunals, and God suffers it to come to trial, it is that His own name may be glorified. But a woe will be upon the man who gives himself to do this work. God reads the motives, whatever they may be. I pray that the Lord will teach our brethren to be straightforward, and make no compromise in the matter. The cause of God has been bruised and wounded by any such men connecting with it, and the sooner they are separated from it, the better.... {2SM 152.4}

God calls for men of decided fidelity. He has no use in an emergency for two-sided men. He wants men who will lay their hand upon a wrong work and say, “This is not according to the will of God.”—Letter 19 1/2, 1897. {2SM 153.1}


"Jesus Himself never purchased peace by compromise. His heart overflowed with love for the whole human race, but He was never indulgent to their sins. He was too much their friend to remain silent while they were pursuing a course that would ruin their souls,—the souls He had purchased with His own blood. He labored that man should be true to himself, true to his higher and eternal interest. The servants of Christ are called to the same work, and they should beware lest, in seeking to prevent discord, they surrender the truth. They are to “follow after the things which make for peace” (Romans 14:19); but real peace can never be secured by compromising principle. And no man can be true to principle without exciting opposition. A Christianity that is spiritual will be opposed by the children of disobedience."{DA 356.1}
My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me....That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave."
— Stonewall Jackson

Richard Myers

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2016, 12:01:15 PM »
Amen, dear brother!  Korah, Dathan, and Abiram not only lost their own souls, but they carried others with them. But, God did not allow the rebellion to continue in open rebellion, and thus multitudes of souls were protected from the influence of evil men.

So it is today. The longer open rebellion is allowed to fester, the more who will be infected with the evil in the church. What has led to this horrible situation?  A failure to preach the gospel of grace. There are false gospels being preached from the pulpits of God's church. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 
 1:9   As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8,9.
Yet we allow just such a heresy. Church leaders tolerate such fatal errors which imperil the salvation of many in the church, including our young.

"They dared not tolerate errors fatal to their own souls, and set an example which would imperil the faith of their children and children’s children. To secure peace and unity they were ready to make any concession consistent with fidelity to God; but they felt that even peace would be too dearly purchased at the sacrifice of principle."


All may watch the Annual Council meeting today online.  It is being live-streamed right now.   Click here
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Richard Myers

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2016, 05:00:23 PM »
Not all leaders in the NAD are ignorant of Scripture, and rebelling against God and His church. We are thankful for those who stood up against the rebels in support of God and the faithful General Conference leaders.

Michigan Conference president Elder Jay Gallimore made these remarks prior to the vote on the greatly watered down document.

    “Thank you brother chairman, Jay Gallimore for the Michigan Conference. I want to rise to support this document. Its an outstanding document. Redemptive discipline takes time. I wrote an article some years ago on redemptive discipline for the Ministry magazine. And they need time to get started. And I’m disappointed to hear so many references made that the issue that faced the General Conference in San Antonio is some kind of minor policy. That motion required a vote based on the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. We spent months and years, through all kinds of committees, to get to the place where this Church could vote on that issue. At this point, the issue is no longer that issue. The issue is the unity of the church. And the unity of the church is not maintained by pluralism. If we want to try to find a way that’s painless, to keep the unity of the church, we can go down the road of pluralism, but it will be very, very costly in the end. Redemptive discipline is painful. Its patient. Its full of love. And this document, I believe, gives us the start on that. We cannot as a Church maintain our unity, and allow people who oppose the world church, to simply accomplish what they wanted by default, by the Church never addressing the issue. Should it be patient? Should it be longsuffering? Should it be all those kinds of things? Yes. And I think this document is the journey that starts the world church on addressing what it needs to, and I hope this body will vote this.”

Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Pete

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2016, 07:39:23 PM »
I'm very sorry to report that I think this is an intolerable delay and that those who are for WO will become even more entrenched.

colporteur

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Re: Documents for Discussion - 2016 Autumn Council
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2016, 06:31:28 AM »
I'm very sorry to report that I think this is an intolerable delay and that those who are for WO will become even more entrenched.

What really is the document accomplishing ? A warning ?  A formality so the GC can say "we went the extra mile."   A placating of those who are opposed to WO ?   I guess time will tell.
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