Author Topic: Electronic Voting Fails  (Read 2823 times)

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Richard Myers

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Electronic Voting Fails
« on: July 05, 2015, 05:24:45 PM »
The afternoon business session again tested and discussed electronic and private versus public voting. If things continue the way they are, it may be necessary to add a day or two to the Session or maybe some late night sessions.
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JimB

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 06:39:55 PM »
I realize that there are probably times to be able to vote privately. However, I'm not sure I understand the need at the GC. Maybe there is something I'm not understanding? If you have legitimate problems with the person nominated why would you want to hide if you think it's going to harm the church?

But my experience only goes so far as the church board so maybe I'm missing something?
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Wally

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 04:10:15 AM »
We used the electronic voting method at our last constituency meeting, and it made things go much faster.  The old method was cumbersome and took a lot more time.  It was especially useful when a voice vote was close.   When a motion to adjourn was made, they did a voice vote, but the constituents of one particular church yelled so loud (against the motion) that it gave a false impression of the will of the body.  So they tried again with the electronic method, and the motion passed.
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants:  we have done that which was our duty to do.  Luke 17:10

Immanuel

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 04:31:06 AM »
The system is apparently working. There are several contingents of delegates from several African divisions that simply are not voting (about 25% of delegates) A friend of mine who is there said that they do not trust the system most likely because voting systems used by the governments in their own country are often misused/abused.

Immanuel

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 05:00:42 AM »
We also used an electronic method at the last Michigan Conf constituency. It worked quite well there, we had about 500 delegates. It is unfortunate that the system didn't work here. I do believe that there is some merit to the concern of not using secret ballots on some particularly difficult votes such as WO.

The concerns that have been raised, primarily by NAD and TED delegates, allege that some of the more conservative divisions will vote the way their leader votes. I believe that can go both ways. There is pressure on NAD and TED candidates to also vote a certain way. Because the delegates are seated by division it is not difficult to quickly see who voted contrary to the majority of that division is using the voting cards.

We have seen the attitude of some of those who support WO displayed at some of the Union constituency meetings. Imagine being a delegate from a conference in one of those unions. Would there not be pressure? I agree with Jim that it should not affect an individuals vote and I do not believe that it would affect my vote, but we are not the delegates.

The electronic process would give a very easy and straightforward method that would deal with many of these issues. Not to mention, as Wally stated, it is very helpful when the vote is close.

colporteur

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 06:48:09 AM »

  I wonder if after those against electing Ted Wilson wanted t use the secret ballot lose the vote
I realize that there are probably times to be able to vote privately. However, I'm not sure I understand the need at the GC. Maybe there is something I'm not understanding? If you have legitimate problems with the person nominated why would you want to hide if you think it's going to harm the church?

But my experience only goes so far as the church board so maybe I'm missing something?

Its called job/ ministry security. Those delegates, that may be pastors or hold other paid positions, if they vote against their conference they will be black listed.

Has it been decided yet which method of voting they will use for the WO vote ?
It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.

colporteur

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2015, 09:36:07 AM »
Today there was an amendment passed on Fundamental Belief #23 regarding marriage .The wording was changed  from "partners" to a man and a woman. Of course the purpose was to bring clarity that marriage is between opposite sex partners. NAD delegate Larry Geraty tried to return this to the committee and was cut off as he exceeded his 2 minute time period. In other words he was against the proposed change in the language. President Ted Wilson reportedly rebuked this by saying SDAs believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

Geraty also criticized the work of Ellen White.

They are currently debating  the language used regarding creation.

Here is a quote by Geraty published in Spectrum Magazine in 2010.

"Christ tells us they will know us by our love, not by our commitment to a seven literal historical, consecutive, contiguous 24-hour day week of creation 6,000 years ago which is NOT in Genesis no matter how much the fundamentalist wing of the church would like to see it there.

Fundamental Belief No. 6 uses Biblical language to which we can all agree; once you start interpreting it according to anyone’s preference you begin to cut out members who have a different interpretation. I wholeheartedly affirm Scripture, but NOT the extra-Biblical interpretation of the Michigan Conference. Since when is salvation by correct knowledge anyway?"


He also made quotes saying that the Noahian flood referred to in Genesis was most likely a local flood rather than a world wide flood.
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colporteur

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 10:12:51 AM »

 So far there are NAD delegates and other delegates attacking on fundamental beliefs regarding Creation, marriage, and the SOP. Women's ordination is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the rebellion. However, we knew that.
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Plain Adventist

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2015, 11:17:34 AM »
How can we get access to these updates? Are they on Twitter or Facebook? I am in the dark as to the proceedings currently going on.
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Ed Sutton

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2015, 11:19:12 AM »
Try Twitter.

Our son was in the alamodome assembly while what CP was saying was going on, Joel said, "dad I felt a presence there, something was different than other times."   Then Joel silently asked "Lord are You here ? "           Quietly in his mind a small still reply........      " We are all here ".

He said "dad I really shrank back in my seat, I felt really small in my seat" "The Father, The Son, The Holy Ghost are here and holy angels".    Joel also said the small still reply said "This is the last GC Session."

Not all the 2600 delegates got to San Antonio, it's more important than ever that all delegates stay at all sessions, in 2000 many delegates went sightseeing on Preparation Day, using that advantage , many bad measures were passed while the God fearing delegates thought nothing important would be voted on, and so the politics of sin confederated and stole a march during that time.

Encourage all delegates to stay at their post till it is all over.
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LindaRS

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2015, 11:41:35 AM »
Twitter has several tweeters posting using #gcsa15. FB also has some sites.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Adventist-Review-GC-Session/843730705675354

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O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. O Lord, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. Jeremiah  10:23-24

Plain Adventist

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2015, 05:44:25 PM »
Thank you, Ed and Linda. I have figured out how to find the comments on Twitter.
Amy Pavlovik ~~ “The strength and spirituality of the people of God are manifest by the distinctness of the line of demarcation which separates them from the world.” SW 17

Wally

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Re: Electronic Voting Fails
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2015, 04:31:48 AM »
Try Twitter.

Our son was in the alamodome assembly while what CP was saying was going on, Joel said, "dad I felt a presence there, something was different than other times."   Then Joel silently asked "Lord are You here ? "           Quietly in his mind a small still reply........      " We are all here ".

He said "dad I really shrank back in my seat, I felt really small in my seat" "The Father, The Son, The Holy Ghost are here and holy angels".    Joel also said the small still reply said "This is the last GC Session."


I think we need to be cautious about these kinds of incidents.  I would not venture to speculate about the impressions someone else has had, but I've heard these kinds of things before.  It can generate a false excitement and a let down when nothing happens.  We're counseled not to speculate on the timing of the Second Coming.   We are to live every day as if His coming were today.  "Occupy til I come," is the command.  And, if we drop dead today, our next sensation will be rising to meet the Lord in the air, or . . . .   May we not be in the latter group.

Here is the quote:

"You will not be able to say that He will come in one, two, or five years, neither are you to put off His coming by stating that it may not be for ten or twenty years."  1 SM 189.
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants:  we have done that which was our duty to do.  Luke 17:10