Author Topic: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President  (Read 27311 times)

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ejclark

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2013, 05:00:15 PM »
The Spirit of the Lord has led the world conference to officially address this issue and in so doing has also set the precedent of either acceptance or rejection of women's ordination in a very organized and methodical manner. Officially, steps have to be followed in a very specific way so that no stone is left unturned and no fact or detail is left unexamined. Officially, the GC can't change its policy on women's ordination except for an official vote that would overturn the last official vote. Now, I don't know who gets chosen to go to GC session to vote on these things. In our conference each individual church sends a percentage number to the local conference meeting. In the case of the SECC, they now have a track record of "running ahead of the Lord" and have also gone cross grain against official policy. This I believe would disqualify that conference from being able to send representatives to the GC meeting.  For this conference as well as this union and the other unions who have voted to ordain women pastors, these entities would also disqualify themselves from participation at the GC meeting for the same reason, thus no executive committee members from these conferences or unions would be allowed to participate.  And since the NAD has supported this all along as well, probably no member of their executive committee would be able to participate either. And since these people wouldn't be allowed to vote, I doubt their voices would be able to be heard at any discussion at the GC session.

And what would disqualify all these people? They aren't following official protocol nor are they following officially recognized Biblical research, study and acceptance methods.

And all this may be nothing more than wishful thinking.

I do know that this rebellion won't win. I believe full heartedly that women's ordination won't pass. It's not like the Lord hasn't had to deal with this before. But the last time the ground opened up and swallowed those in rebellion. I doubt He will deal with this the same way this time.

ltvvaughn

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2013, 07:04:50 PM »
That would be quite an interesting turn of events if the NAD was not allowed to have a voting presence at the next GC session.  There would be a firestorm of words directed against the GC for sure, and I'm sure there would be an enormous amount of political maneuvering, trying to force an agenda.  We will soon see how things develop.

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Richard Myers

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2013, 09:35:00 PM »
While it may be legal to do such a thing approved by the ADCOM, I doubt they would take that responsibility on themselves. That is the responsibility of the world church in session. Let them make the decision as to how to deal with the rebellion.  That will come soon enough. And now, time is given for the rebellion to ripen to include all who have a rebellious spirit. The session can remove the offending conferences and or divisions at that time from voting. They could remove the leaders responsible and appoint new leaders for those conferences or divisions. They could forever ban the ones who held leadership positions in those bodies. And, as in the case of the most rabidly rebellious, disband the conference.

A separation is taking place. How it happens within the organization, we will have to wait and see. These are perilous times. The church will appear as it is about to fall, but will not. God has all the silver and all the gold, and the cattle on a thousand hills. No need to fear for His church. It needs to be purified of those who have no faith in His Word and are acting out their rebellion. Elder Wilson and the General Conference leaders have been a witness as to the patience and forbearance of our God. We are thankful for them and the Spirit manifested as this rebellion has deepened.
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ejclark

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2013, 12:33:06 PM »
I look at the statements made by Elder Wilson about the GC not recognizing women in certain positions. It goes all the way back to CUC voting to ordain woman ministers. I can't imagine he would make an idle statement. Nor can I imagine him to make a statement that he and the GC wasn't prepared to back up and reinforce. These next few years are going to be incredibly interesting to watch.

ejclark

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2013, 01:13:25 PM »
I am also reminded of a time when around the year 1900, Mrs. White had to return from Australia to deal with some leaders in the Indiana conference. In the end pretty much the entire group of leadership was released/fired and replaced.

Richard Myers

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2013, 01:32:31 PM »
I agree, ej. If the woman conference president is a delegate at the GC Session, she will not be recognized as an ordained minister or as a conference president. She is neither. It is contrary to church law.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Larry Lyons

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2013, 03:02:36 PM »
This may sound harsh, but I find it interesting that in the Sabbath School lesson quarterly for Sunday, Oct. 27 the author mentions that in the Old Testament sacrificial system there was no sacrificial atonement for rebellion.

"While an offering was available for these first two categories, none is mentioned for rebellious sin, the most heinous kind. Rebellious sin was done "in the face" of God, with a high hand, and the rebel deserved nothing less than to be cut off (Num. 15:29-31)."

And in 1Sam. 23, Samuel told Saul, "Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft."

It is a fearful, even terrifying thought that some of the leaders of this rebellion may have crossed the line so far that there is no turning back.

ltvvaughn

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2013, 04:57:27 PM »
Here is an account of how open rebellion was dealt with in ancient Israel.

Quote
And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy. Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace: And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.  (Numbers 25:6-13)

I don't advocate literally doing what Phinehas did, but we can use the Sword of Scripture to slay those who are in rebellion.  I'm reminded what Elijah did on Carmel.  He slew the priests of baal, then he prayed and the rain came.  Could this be our Carmel?  Are we to symbolically slay with the Word of God those who are in open rebellion?  Will it be then that God will reward our prayers with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and give us the "everlasting priesthood?"

LtV
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Linda K

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2013, 05:08:17 PM »
It's interesting how those who are for WO are looking at it. One proponent here in SECC stated, We must stand up for what is right. We're like the Martin Luther's standing against the pope. He didn't say who he thought the pope was, but you can imagine.

JimB

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2013, 05:16:20 PM »
It's sad to realize that some see the GC leadership as the enemy. What happened to brotherly love and respect?
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LindaRS

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2013, 05:26:13 PM »
It's pretty simple, Jim. The Bible says that by their fruits you will know them. It also tells us that the fruit of the Spirit love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. It tells us that the works of the flesh are Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. We bear the fruit of the master we choose.
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wigina

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2013, 07:37:41 PM »
The world of homosexuality compromise strife and all such fruits may well have swallowed them already going by the statements and official positions of that division.

Mimi

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2014, 06:26:20 AM »
“we have a whole bunch of women conference presidents in the room.” - Sandra Roberts to the Association of Adventist Women annual conference.

The members of this association met in an effort to promote women in leadership and to discover how to counteract "a well-funded" group teaching headship in the home and the church. Note the leaders - the head of women's ministries for the world church, Beitz, Roberts, et al. Of course, Spectrum covered the event. Here is the link: http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2014/10/20/how-promote-women-leadership

This article is also worth reading simply to show their rationale. Report on Association of Adventist Women's Annual Conference
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Mimi

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2014, 06:15:50 PM »
ADVENTISTS: Female conference president is living history

A year ago Monday, the election of Corona’s Sandra Roberts as the first woman to head a Seventh-day Adventist regional body led to a stern warning from officers of the worldwide church, who reiterated the church’s position against the ordination of women.

The world body still does not recognize Roberts’ election.

Nor does it view her ordination as valid.

Her name is conspicuously absent from the Adventist Online Yearbook’s listings of top administrators in the Riverside-based Southeastern California Conference, which is similar to a diocese. A line is all that appears after “President.”


Of course, there is no slant to this article. Read on here: http://www.pe.com/articles/church-752830-roberts-women.html

An extended interview here: http://www.pe.com/articles/roberts-752886-sandra-wrote.html
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Richard Myers

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2014, 12:47:30 AM »
The newspaper reported what happened to her at the annual council meeting: "Roberts attended this month’s annual council meeting in Maryland, where women’s ordination was discussed and the executive committee acted. But the only female Adventist conference president in the world was forbidden from speaking on the matter during official sessions.  Conference presidents in divisions that host annual councils typically are allowed to speak. But the world church does not recognize Roberts as a conference president, so she had to wear a “visitor” tag like anyone else who was simply observing the proceedings."
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Mimi

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #75 on: October 28, 2014, 07:58:47 PM »
Yes. Poor "visiting" woman. She created the situation she is having to live with. Too bad that was not in the article.
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Richard Myers

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #76 on: October 28, 2014, 10:46:27 PM »
It was, at the end of the article.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #77 on: October 29, 2014, 04:29:50 AM »
I missed it. Thank you for pointing that out.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #78 on: October 29, 2014, 09:07:37 AM »
It was good that they reported honestly, rather than what we often get from our publications.  It is a rebuke to the NAD, the Pacific Union Conference,  and all who participate in the rebellion. To publicly point out she is not recognized by the church is a powerful truth. There is indeed a divide within the church. The world is watching, as is God.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: SECC Defies World Church, Nominates and Elects Roberts President
« Reply #79 on: October 29, 2014, 09:13:28 AM »
It was good that they reported honestly, rather than what we often get from our publications.  It is a rebuke to the NAD, the Pacific Union Conference,  and all who participate in the rebellion. To publicly point out she is not recognized by the church is a powerful truth. There is indeed a divide within the church. The world is watching, as is God.

That is an important  point. With all the twisting and false implications that are typical this is a concession of sorts. Up until now they have tried to make it appear that  the church supports WO when it does not. It looks like this is gearing up for an all or nothing battle.
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