Author Topic: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church  (Read 25170 times)

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Richard Myers

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The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« on: August 25, 2012, 11:29:14 PM »
The Seventh-day Adventist Church has refused to ordain women pastors. Many in the church believe the Bible teaches that women are not to usurp the authority of man in the church and in the home.

In 1990 at the General Conference Session at Indianapolis, the World Church voted to not ordain women to the gospel ministry.

In 1995 the issue of the ordination of women was voted on again. At the General Conference Session at Utrecht the world church said no to a request to let divisions decide the matter for their division. At that session  Gerard Damsteegt from Andrews University, presented an argument that supported the World Church's position denying women's ordination to the gospel ministry.

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LindaRS

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 08:02:47 PM »
Dr. Damsteegt has a transcript of his talk to the 1995 General Conference session available on his website. Here.
O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. O Lord, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. Jeremiah  10:23-24

Richard Myers

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2012, 06:30:15 AM »
It is contrary to the world today to believe that a man is the head of woman as the Bible teaches. Sadly, the world has come into the churches. For those still seeking to understand this truth here is Peter's counsel on the subject found in First Peter:

  3:1   Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 
  3:2   While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 
  3:3   Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 
  3:4   But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 
  3:5   For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 
  3:6   Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 
  3:7   Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. 


And if the man does not give "honour unto the wife" then we have a problem. And not only, but does not Scripture tell the strong to bear with the infirmities of the weak? Can you imagine many women today who would call their husbands "lord"?  Not many. Of course I understand that many are not worthy to be called lord, being not converted. Never the less, a woman is not to usurp the authority given to man.

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Marelis

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 11:53:24 AM »
What if, in the home situation, the husband is unwise, I didn't want to use the word fool and his wife is more sensible? He is loose with money. He wants a new fancier TV, a new car or new house that they can't afford. Should the wife stand by and say Yes, dear?

In the home setting, what are some examples of a wife usurping the man's authority?
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LindaRS

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 03:18:24 PM »
This may help to answer your question.

"When the wife yields her body and mind to the control of her husband, being passive to his will in all things, sacrificing her conscience, her dignity, and even her identity, she loses the opportunity of exerting that mighty influence for good which she should possess, to elevate her husband."--RH Sept. 26, 1899.  {TSB 26.1}
O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. O Lord, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. Jeremiah  10:23-24

Mimi

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 04:42:32 PM »
Amen.

In the home setting, what are some examples of a wife usurping the man's authority?

As the priest of the household, representing Christ, the husband is going to naturally guard everyone under his charge against prevailing sinful influences that would mar the holy and sacred nature of the family. It may be that the wife does not consider a particular influence as "all that bad" or she may think her husband is "too strict," and she takes it upon herself to allow either their children or herself to venture into it anyway. That is usurping his authority. Most any label can be placed upon the influence: dress, companions, music, food, books, or display. It could be any number of things.

Adventist Home -Chap. Thirty-Four Father's Position and Responsibilities is a chapter describing his solemn duties under the leadership of Christ. The father does not take his position for granted, nor does he become puffed up or vain because of his God-given position. He does not force the will of the mother or children, but in loving kindness and patience, he will guide them into right paths. Should the wife do anything to take the family or herself off that course, she is usurping his authority. 
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 09:31:11 PM »
Amen and amen!
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Richard Myers

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2012, 04:46:25 PM »
It is easy for some to over look passages of Scripture that they do not like. Here is more than one verse that makes it impossible to misunderstand what Paul is teaching.

1 Corinthians
  11:1   Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 
  11:2   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 
  11:3   But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 
  11:4   Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 
  11:5   But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 
  11:6   For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 
  11:7   For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 
  11:8   For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 
  11:9   Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 


The world hates this truth, and it, the world,  has entered into God's church.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2012, 05:31:26 PM »
That is Bible headship!
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2012, 06:07:41 PM »
Amen. Lest some be confused:

1 Cor.
  11:14   Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 
  11:15   But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.


Do not judge "long hair" by today's standard. Jesus did not have long hair, Sampson did. Mary had long hair. She wiped Jesus feet with her hair.  A man's hair can rest on his shoulders, but not to his waist. We all understand that for a man to have long hair is it not good. It belongs to a woman, that is why it is a shame for a man. And for a woman, it is her glory. Long hair is long. Do not judge by today's perverted standards. Satan has been at work for 6,000 years to pervert our standards. He has been very successful. So much so that young ladies today do not know what true modesty is. There is little point in saying so here, for they could not bear to hear it. :(
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Richard Myers

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 09:32:11 AM »
Thus saith the Lord:

Isaiah
 
Chapter 3

  3:1   For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water. 
  3:2   The mighty man, and the man of war, the judge, and the prophet, and the prudent, and the ancient, 
  3:3   The captain of fifty, and the honourable man, and the counsellor, and the cunning artificer, and the eloquent orator. 
  3:4   And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them. 
  3:5   And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable. 
  3:6   When a man shall take hold of his brother of the house of his father, saying, Thou hast clothing, be thou our ruler, and let this ruin be under thy hand: 
  3:7   In that day shall he swear, saying, I will not be an healer; for in my house is neither bread nor clothing: make me not a ruler of the people. 
  3:8   For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory. 
  3:9   The show of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves. 
  3:10   Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings. 
  3:11   Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him. 
  3:12   As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. 
  3:13   The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people. 
  3:14   The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses. 
  3:15   What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts. 
  3:16   Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: 
  3:17   Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts. 
  3:18   In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon, 
  3:19   The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, 
  3:20   The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, 
  3:21   The rings, and nose jewels, 
  3:22   The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins, 
  3:23   The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the veils. 
  3:24   And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty. 
  3:25   Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war. 
  3:26   And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground. 
 
Chapter 4

  4:1   And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
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Mimi

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2012, 11:06:47 AM »
Woe! A mighty, stinging prophecy.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Richard Myers

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 12:50:33 PM »
There are truths in the Bible that are diametrically opposed to many of the cultures of the world. Today, the placing of women in positions of leadership over men is an important matter in the world. Like with homosexuality it is said to be a matter of fairness. The Bible statements made by Paul in 1 Timothy are anathema to the world. Therefore when the world comes into the church, these verses are an abomination to many in the church also.

  2:12   But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 
  2:13   For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 
  2:14   And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 
  2:15   Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. 


Paul does not leave any room for misunderstanding that it is wrong for a woman have authority over a man. The issue of silence is in regards to the authority, not literally being silent. The importance of these verses cannot be over estimated, for they not only state the truth about headship, but Paul makes it clear that it is not a matter of culture as so many false teachers attempt to teach. No, culture has nothing to do with why women are not to usurp the authority of men. And, this is New Testament teaching, not Old Testament. But, it is also a principle written in the Old Testament. It is where Paul learned of the matter. "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." Genesis 3:16.

Those who teach otherwise ignore Bible truth.
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ejclark

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 11:28:50 AM »
We can stand around all day quoting scripture, but the bottom line the pro WO advocates continue to proclaim is these scriptures are influenced by culture.  Of course they are not, but how does the Bible prove they are not?  What I am going to present is something I've been studying on for a while, but I've never heard any one else present this.  So before I proclaim this as "gospel truth", it really needs to be run by the brethren of responsibility and authority.

Have any of you heard of Hebrew Parallelism?  After researching and learning, I've come to the conclusion that most pastors (truly Biblical pastors) preach the Bible truths in this method.  It's actually a very simple concept that is repeatedly used in the Bible, specially in the Psalms.  The most popular form of Hebrew Parallelism is the Chiastic structure as found in the book of Revelation.  But there are a few other forms as well.  I will jump right into using Hebrew Parallelism on this topic of WO and hopefully I will explain it well enough for it to be easily understood.

Eph. 5:22-25 "Wives, submit yourselves unto you own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and He is the saviour of the body.  Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.  Husbands, love you wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it;"

These verses present this topic using the chiastic form.  Visually it looks like this:

Husband      Christ
  Wife          Church

What this also explains is that the husband is a type of Christ as the woman is a type of the church.  Now, this shouldn't be such a strange thing to us when considering Rev. 12 (woman with 12 stars above her head) and Rev.17 (woman on red beast).

Now, what the WO proponents will explain is that this can be flipped over.  But according to Hebrew Parallelism if you flip one, you also have to flip the other.  WO proponents want to do this:

   Wife       Christ
Husband   Church

But according to Hebrew Parallelism, if you flip one you should also be able to flip the other:

      Wife       Church
  Husband     Christ

Obviously this is not Biblical what so ever.

1 Cor. 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

This verse is not in the form of a chiasim, but it falls into one of the other categories of parallelism.  And it looks like this:

 Man         Christ       God
Woman      Man       Christ

Though it's not a chiasim, it still has the same visual structure, thus falling into the category of parallelism.

Again, WO proponents say you can do this to it:

Woman      Christ       God
 Man          Man        Christ

Now, when you do this, it also requires to not only flip top to bottom, but you also have to change gender side to side or the parallel makes no sense.  So out of necessity you also have to do this:

Woman      Christ        God
 Man         Woman     Christ
But again, if you can flip one and change genders at will, Hebrew Parallelism says you should also be able to flip and change the other:

Woman     Woman    Christ
  Man         Christ       God

Obviously, this again isn't Biblical.

Now, another form of parallelism is the use of comparing multiple verses from various parts of the Bible incorporating the principle of "precept upon precept; line upon line; here a little, there a little".  I'm going to include 1 Timothy 3:2 instead of Titus 1:7, mainly because the details of what makes a man eligible to be an elder are more detailed in 1 Timothy in the part of his headship in the home, but in reality either verse can be used.

1 Tim. 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"  So, in following the pattern of parallelism, this verse looks like this when placed in parallel with the other parts.

Husband   one   Wife

Now when explaining this to someone who leans very heavily upon the "cultural reasoning" of explaining these verses, what they will tell you is that though the structure is true, it's also adjustable because of the sake of culture.  But as I've shown above, this simply can't be true.  Though they claim cultural reasoning, in reality it's really the practice of Higher Criticism.  But of course they won't see it that way.  But if they want to have it their way, and only adjust the one part, then you should be able to follow the path of parallelism all the way through.  And then it will look like this:

   Wife           Christ
Husband       Church

Woman       Christ        God
 Man          Woman     Christ

   Wife        one       Wife
                  or
Husband     one    Husband

I know this won't convince everyone, but maybe it will convince those who are being sincere but they've just been mis-informed.

Richard Myers

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2012, 11:42:43 AM »

This verse is not in the form of a chiasim, but it falls into one of the other categories of parallelism.  And it looks like this:

 Man         Christ       God
Woman      Man       Christ

Though it's not a chiasim, it still has the same visual structure, thus falling into the category of parallelism.

Again, WO proponents say you can do this to it:

Woman      Christ       God
 Man          Man        Christ

ej, can you give a little more explanation on this?     Why     Man Man Christ         
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ejclark

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2012, 01:19:46 PM »
Initially the verse says that man is the head over the woman, Christ is the head over man, and God is the head over Christ.
So man over woman, Christ over man, God over Christ.
Supporters of WO want to flip the first one to woman over man.  You are supposed to look at the parallels as "top over bottom" is as "top over bottom" is as "top over bottom".  "Man over Woman" is as "Christ over man" is as "God over Christ".  I think you are seeing the side to side, without seeing there is also a top over bottom.  I underlined the object on top trying to show the relation of top over bottom but it might not have come across that way.

As is explained in the verses in Ephesians, there is to be proper submission of woman to man, man to Christ, Christ to God; as there will be proper headship of God over Christ, Christ over man, and should be man over woman.

Mimi

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2012, 01:38:08 PM »
Yes, that is how I saw it. I like your outline.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

ejclark

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2012, 02:04:46 PM »
Yes, that is how I saw it. I like your outline.
Did you understand what I was showing there on the last part?  I might should have spaced things better, but I was headed to a certain conclusion.  I didn't want to come right out and give the conclusion, but was hoping I explained it well enough and gave a comprehensible diagram that it would be self evident.

Richard Myers

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2012, 04:34:48 PM »
Thanks, ej.  I understand. It is hard to follow a lie. There is no consistency in it.

Who teaches that woman is to be over man? I mean in the sense you have presented it. I don't think I have ever seen it presented in that manner.  Most of the wo "teachers" don't want anyone to be over anyone. I think they are unhappy that there are differing levels of responsibility in heaven....or that God created Lucifer a little in advance of other angels.  The world hates such things.  That Christianity would be above another religion is an abomination in the eyes of the world. To teach that a woman is over man is contrary to "the priesthood" of all believers which is their favorite mantra.
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ejclark

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Re: The Bible Teaches Male Headship in the Home and the Church
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2012, 05:38:55 PM »
Yes Richard, I believe you are correct.  But as is presented in the Bible, if no one is over any one as is promoted through the priesthood of all believers, than God wouldn't have any authority over us either, would He.  So I believe presenting it as the Bible teaches in this way, those who are sincerely open to change their minds based on truth, there's a part of the truth.  And then when the allowance of homosexuality is exposed in this manner, I believe that will have some impact also.