Author Topic: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists  (Read 6085 times)

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Richard Myers

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2015, 08:25:10 AM »
When we began the topic on rebellion in 2001, we did so because we understood that the making of women leaders of men was contrary to Scripture and the decision of the General Conference in Session, and was rebellion. It is interesting that so many in the church fail to call it so, even as we see the results clearly reveal rebellion against conference bylaws as well as the  world church and the Bible. Some who may disagree with the Bible principles are beginning to see that to move contrary to the world church's decision is very wrong. But, they still do not call it rebellion.

In an email today I read the thoughts of Michael Peabody regarding the ordination  of women pastors and the vote to take place at San Antonio. "For those who disagree with the outcome, it may be tempting for parts of the church to engage in a form of civil disobedience and disregard the decision of the worldwide church in session rather than to agree to follow the decision. But ignoring or disregarding the vote would institutionalize a wedge and create troubling precedent in terms of church cohesion. This would introduce congregationalism that would compromise the structural integrity of the church, and every subcategory, from union to conference to local church would have the presumptive authority to disregard decisions made at the higher levels. In a church based on a common set of fundamental beliefs, it could mean the end of local denominational identity in many parts of the world.

Dissenting entities within the church who disregard the vote will be institutionalizing a lack of respect for the authority structure that all portions of the church identified as Seventh-day Adventist have agreed to and this could destroy any ability of the denomination to cohesively address these future challenges."


Very well stated, Michael, but you neglect to say what we said 14 years ago, that this has already taken place. Dissenting entities within the church who have disregarded the General Conference vote have in fact revealed a lack of respect for the authority structure that all portions of the church identified as Seventh-day Adventist have agreed to. This lack of respect for church authority manifested in disobedience is rebellion. Now, if the rebellion against  church law is not contrary to Scripture, then that is one thing and in some cases as when the church crucified Christ, we would stand with the refusal to follow church law, but when the rebellion is also against Bible law, then it is  rebellion against God as well as the church.

This is indeed a distraction from the real issue which is a Laodicean church that has perverted more than the principle of church leadership. But, it is a distraction that needs  to be met since  the rebellion has spread in the last 15 years and is continuing to disrupt the church. The rebellion is not led by the laity, but is being fueled by a majority of the leaders in the North American Division who revealed their lack of respect for church authority by voting to allow women  to be conference presidents despite the vote of the GC in  Session and the refusal of the General Conference to approve a variance they requested.  At that time we addressed the subject in our June 2012 Newsletter that has just been placed in our public archive. In it we reported on the October 31, 2011 NAD vote. According to the General Conference’s Office of General Counsel, the vote numbered 162 in favor of making women leaders of men and 61 against it.

Adventist News Network reported Prior to the discussion of this policy, Dan Jackson, president of the North American Division, led the congregation through the hymn “Have Thine Own Way Lord” and asked for the Holy Sprit’s leading in the discussion. Also, attendees separated in small groups (about three times) to pray about the proceedings. “My desire is that at the end of this discussion everyone present says in their own mind ‘I was in the presence of the Spirit of God,’” said Jackson. Such blindness that he would lead those assembled to think they were being led by God in their rebellion.

While we apparently disagree with Michael Peabody in regards to making women rulers over men, we certainly agree with him about the failure of those who have rejected and  will reject the authority of the world church.
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Richard Myers

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2017, 03:41:53 PM »
We continue to report on the actions taken by the General Conference, and the actions of those in rebellion. We now choose to post in this thread an action taken by leadership in the church, most pointedly, leaders in unions in four rebellious divisions.

Today as we post, there is a meeting in London organized by union leadership in the four divisions of the world church. Not all union leadership in these divisions is involved. It is being reported that there are ten unions involved. Invitations to the meeting were sent to all of the unions in the world church.

What is the agenda for the meeting? It is to further the rebellion against the authority of the world church. From the "Unity 2017" website:

"Unity 2017 has been organised by Adventist leaders from four of the world divisions—an indication of the global significance of this discussion. It is a true sisterhood of union conferences, who have joined hearts and hands in seeking to provide leaders in our church a special opportunity for prayerful contemplation of this important topic. In the spirit of those Sabbath Conferences of the 1840s, and enthused by God’s Spirit, we will come together to explore the important subjects of church structure and authority, unity, and liberty of conscience."

Yes, indeed there are four divisions that are in rebellion. Western Europe, North America and Australia have been so influenced by the world that they know better than the world church. This organization will give the church a view of who it is that is leading out in the rebellion. Who are the leaders in this rebellious organization? Here we see who welcomed the registrants to the meeting, and who signed as the "Organising Committee."

Wim Altink, Ricardo Graham, Thomas Muller, Brad Kemp, and Dave Weigley

Organising Committee, Unity 2017


Keynote Speakers--

Roy Adams (PhD)
Teacher, pastor, theology professor (Systematics), administrator, author, Associate Editor, Review (Retired)

Reinder Bruinsma (PhD)
Pastor and church administrator (Retired)

John Brunt (PhD)
New Testament Theologian, Academic Administrator, Pastor (Retired)

Lowell Cooper (DMin)
General Vice President, General Conference (Retired)

Olive Hemmings (PhD)
Professor of Religion, Washington Adventist University

Wendy Jackson (PhD)
Lecturer in Ministry and Theology, Avondale College

George Knight (EdD)
Emeritus Professor of Church History, Andrews University

Barry Oliver (PhD)
President, South Pacific Division (Retired)

Gary Patterson (DMin)
Theologian, Senior Pastor, Church Administrator (Retired)

Rolf Pöhler (ThD)
Professor (Systematics), Theological Advisor of the North German Union Conference

Ray Roennfeldt (PhD)
Professor (Systematics), President, Avondale College
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colporteur

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2017, 03:55:34 PM »
Richard; can we assume that all the speakers are part of the rebellion ? And are we to assume this meeting is all about seeking to justify breaking from the world church ?
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Richard Myers

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2017, 04:18:33 PM »
cp, it may be that some are innocent. We do not know the hearts of all involved. It is hard to believe any at this point do not see their part in rejecting church authority. Maybe some who are not yet actively involved in making women leaders of men are attending the meeting. That is quite possible. It appears those participating in the leadership of the meeting are working with the rebels.

Are they all working towards splitting from the church? I don't know. This we do know, some of the unions have rejected the authority of the world church and their own bylaws. By so doing they are not operating within the sisterhood of churches which comprise the Seventh-day Adventist Church. It may be they think they have power over the church. They do not. Because God has not acted immediately to discipline them, does not mean they have won their rebellion. Korah was given a period of time in his rebellion before God put an end to it.

We know there is a "shaking" taking place in the church. We know many will be shaken out. It will be (is) a painful process, but it must be. Those who reject Scripture and the authority of the church, after being labored with will be removed from the church. There have been a number of churches that have left the organized church to begin a new church. After a period of time, all may recognized they erred. Their new church did not prove to be a blessing for all who were deceived. So it will be with this separation if some choose to form a new "organization." It is not of God.

This is God's church and it will see revival and reformation. Ezekiel 36 and 37 reveal our current condition and that God will pour out His Spirit and cleanse all who want to serve Him. His grace can bring about this revival. It will happen.

Since a great majority of the NAD leadership has voted to reject the world church's authority, we will face a separation one way or another.

During the Autumn Council in October 2011, the General Conference Executive Committee chose to stand on the Lord's side and uphold its constitution and the decisions made by the General Conference in session in 1995 and again in 2000 regarding the ordination of women to the ministry. The Autumn Council decision this fall confirmed that a conference president must be an ordained minister. There are some in disagreement with this decision who seek to make changes that are contrary to the vote of the Autumn Council, the world church and God's Word. - The Remnant Online Newsletter, December 2011.



Rebellion Against World Church 2010 Commissioned ministers can lead North American conferences, leaders vote
Vote reaffirms older policy; request sent to General Conference for exemption




GC said "No." A request to allow commissioned ministers in the North American and Trans-European divisions -- those who have not been formally ordained as Seventh-day Adventist pastors -- to serve as conference presidents sparked more than six hours of debate October 11, 2011, during the world church's Annual Council.

In the end, the controversial measure was defeated by a written ballot vote of 167 to 117. The 50-vote margin defeating the NAD proposal also effectively ended the TED request, which would have permitted commissioned ministers to head church unions as well as conferences.

http://news.adventist.org/en/archive/articles/2011/10/12/variance-for-north-american-trans-european-division-constitutions-fails-ann
 



2011 Year-end Meeting Report #3 NAD Votes on E 60 Policy: Conference/Mission President Eligibility  http://remnant-online.com/smf/index.php?topic=90.msg137957#msg137957 [/color]
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Richard Myers

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2017, 04:46:52 PM »
What was the NAD's response to the GC's denial of their request for a variance from the church law? They voted to go ahead and do what the GC said they could not do. They voted to change their Constitution to allow for women to rule over men by being conference presidents. How close was the vote? Not even close at all. 162 voted in favor of rebellion, and 61 voted against rebellion.

From the September 2012 Remnant Online newsletter "The Shaking Has Begun".

 Rebellion in the North American Division
     -On October 31, 2011, under the leadership of Daniel Jackson, the NAD voted to allow women to be conference presidents in direct opposition to the General Conference Constitution and the GC denial of their request for a variance. According to the General Conference’s Office of General Counsel, the vote numbered 162 in favor of rebellion and 61 against. http://news.adventist.org/en/archive/articles/2011/11/01/north-american-adventists-reaffirm-commissioned-ministers-as-conference-mis
     -On January 21, 2012, North American Division president, Dan Jackson wrote the NAD Executive Committee explaining that their action to make women conference presidents was illegal. The NAD president then wrote "The North American Division and its Unions and Conferences (as local circumstances permit) must become more intentional in the development of pathways to ministry for female pastors. We must also develop intentional methods of mentoring women who can take on executive leadership positions within our conferences."  http://www.adventistchurchconnect.com/site/1/docs/E-60_Update_Letter_Dan_Jackson.pdf     
     -On Thursday, March 8, 2012,  the Mid-America Union Executive Committee voted “to support the ordination of women in the Mid-America Union.” Thomas L. Lemon, president of the union stated "We are not aware of any candidates, but at some point, one of our six local conferences may vote to recommend a woman for ordination." "As we do with all such requests, the union committee will then prayerfully evaluate the candidate on her own merits while making its decision." http://outlookmag.org/ordination-of-women-as-pastors-in-the-mid-america-union/
     -On March 22, 2012, the Executive Committee of the Southeastern California Conference voted  “to remove the term ‘Ordained-Commissioned’ and replace it with the term ‘Ordained’ on all ministerial credentials, regardless of the gender of the credential holder.”  http://secc.adventistfaith.org/news_entries/14788
     -On March 27, the Potomac Conference, "according to Dan Jensen, assistant to the Potomac Conference president for communication, it was voted unanimously 'to request the Potomac Conference Standing Articles & Bylaws committee to begin a review process of its bylaws that would enable us to ordain women.'”  http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2012/03/27/potomac-conference-moves-ahead-intention-ordain-women
     -On June 29, 2012,  the General Conference issued an "Appeal for Unity" statement: "The actions of certain unions indicate their desire to establish an alternative source of authority for a matter that already carries the authority of the world Church.....For any union to introduce a different ministerial ordination practice is seen, by the rest of the Church, as readiness to set aside a world Church decision and proceed in another direction."  http://www.adventistreview.org/article/5488/archives/issue-2012-1518/18-cn-an-appeal-for-unity
     -On July 29, 2012  "The Columbia Union Conference Special Constituency Meeting today voted an historic motion—'That the Columbia Union Conference authorize ordination to the gospel ministry without regard to gender.' According to a statement released by the union it means that the union executive committee will no longer deny requests from conferences to ordain proven female ministers to the gospel ministry but that their calling will be fully recognized on par with their male counterparts."
http://www.columbiaunion.org/article/1093/news/2012-news-archives/july-29-2012-columbia-union-constituents-overwhelmingly-affirm-women-pastors-through-ordination#.UB_fIKPy3u0
     -On  August 19, 2012 "Delegates to a special session of the Pacific Union Conference voted 79% to 21% to 'approve ordinations to the gospel ministry without regard to gender.'” http://pauc.adventistfaith.org/news_entries/6778
     -On August 19, 2012, the General Conference leadership published a response regarding the rebellion: "Further, the action is contrary to General Conference Working Policy and sets aside the 1990 and 1995 decisions of the General Conference in Session respecting the practice of ordination. The action taken by the Pacific Union Conference represents a serious threat to the unity of the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church, and thus, at its next meeting in October 2012, as indicated in another recent public statement by General Conference officers and division presidents, the General Conference Executive Committee will carefully review the situation and determine how to respond. In the spirit of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the officers of the General Conference appeal to all entities, organizations, and individuals, including the Pacific Union Conference, to refrain from independent and unilateral decisions and from implementing any such actions."   http://www.adventistreview.org/article/5625/archives/issue-2012-1523/a-response-to-the-pacific-union-conference-constituency-vote
     -On September 5, 2012, the Pacific Union Executive Committee approved the ordination of 14 women, ten from the South Eastern California Conference and four from the Northern California Conference.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of His Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2017, 07:08:51 AM »

    https://www.unityintruth.com/


I just emailed off a letter to President Ted Wilson.
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colporteur

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2017, 07:19:42 AM »
Sent a letter off to today for Ted Wilson.

Dear Elder Wilson;

    I am a convert from Catholicism to the SDA church. This took place 28 years ago. I have been successfully canvassing in 11 different states since 1991. My family and I currently live in West Virginia where I am canvassing as well as on the boarder of Maryland, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.  I have three children two of which are adopted from other countries. My wife works for the Federal government as a NRCS assistant to the state.


     We have been following the women's ordination dilemma for the past two decades and realize that it is at a juncture of crisis.  We are seeing Faithful ministers and ministries such as Amazing Facts and Secrets Unsealed being sidelined and  forced to work independently from the NAD leadership. We lift up your hands and call for action to be taken in terms of holding the NAD and any other division accountable for rebellion against the biblical decision of the GC in session. We are very observational as we see WO, coupled with transgender and homosexual acceptance. "By their fruit ye shall know them". We respectfully demand that this issue be dealt with in a courageous yet respectful manner. While this issue is a symptom of a deeper problem, if the issues are not dealt with the cancer grows. It is apparent that no matter what position the GC takes on this division is a reality. We have been told through Inspiration that the straight testimony will be given and there will be a rising up against it. Since division is coming whether a stand against those who are going ahead with WO takes place or not, why not take a stand and be on the right side. Our prayers are with the GC leadership as we lift up your hands and call for you to lean into the battle. The victory is the Lord's.


Blessings;
Kevin, Damarys, and the Mortenson family
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carls365

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2017, 12:21:09 PM »
CP, it's sad that you have to write such a letter in the first place to those who should realize and be doing without being reminded or told.

Plain Adventist

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2017, 09:49:34 AM »
Colporteur, thank you for having the courage to write this letter. I will pray that it will reach the president and be of help to him.
I am amazed that you have moved to West Virginia! We live in WV, outside of Parkersburg. What church are you attending? I think that comparatively, you will find this conference more conservative than where you were, but that depends on what church you are going to, as there is quite a difference between local churches. There is still a great need of present truth and lifestyle reforms here in this conference. It would be wonderful if we could meet your family some time. We have three children and are homeschoolers too.
Amy Pavlovik ~~ “The strength and spirituality of the people of God are manifest by the distinctness of the line of demarcation which separates them from the world.” SW 17

colporteur

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2017, 07:30:58 PM »
Colporteur, thank you for having the courage to write this letter. I will pray that it will reach the president and be of help to him.
I am amazed that you have moved to West Virginia! We live in WV, outside of Parkersburg. What church are you attending? I think that comparatively, you will find this conference more conservative than where you were, but that depends on what church you are going to, as there is quite a difference between local churches. There is still a great need of present truth and lifestyle reforms here in this conference. It would be wonderful if we could meet your family some time. We have three children and are homeschoolers too.

I was canvassing  near Parkersburg, WV and in Marietta, OH last week. Stopped and purchased a whole van load of advertising and new health sets  from Ron Davis as he is retiring after 46 years. Would have bought more as it was a bargain but could only afford so much. I'm hoping no one else takes it but LEs are few and far between so perhaps it will be there for me later. We are sending our son to Quatchita Hills in a couple of weeks so funds are a bit tight.
      The best thing that the Morgantown and Kingwood churches could do is close down rather than to set that kind of example. Suffice to say they are a wasteland.. leadership working on Sabbath, affairs, etc.. I preached in Fairmont a few Sabbaths ago as well as Kingwood and Oakland, MD. We decided to become members at Oakland. We are in a location where we could easily be members in WV, MD, or PA.. I only see a little difference between this conference and others. Grafton church seems pretty good. Since Ron is retiring I am attempting to run his leads and cover an area from Charleston on up to Pittsburgh over east and then down to Elkins. Daughter and I attended part of campmeeting at Vista this year. Some of it was good and some not so great. Really liked Ron Goss' presentation. I missed some of it as I was working in Elkins. WV is a terror on one's vehicle. Blew a head gasket a couple of weeks ago. Not cheap. God is providing. WV is beautiful but a bit of a culture shock. Kind of like moving to a third world country. Nice people on one hand but crazies too. I experienced two demoniacs today over by Grafton. They were out playing horseshoe and pretty sauced up. Part of the time they were hugging me and praising me for my work and part of the time they were yelling in my face rebuking my legalism. lol. Pretty much anything that hinted of obedience set them off. They were not cussing or violent but extremely demonstrative and I don't think it would have taken much to make them aggressive. One of them, the lay preacher was in control of the other and kept him from getting too crazy. He accepted some literature and we had a prayer. Was not sure where that would go but it kind of calmed them down. Never a dull moment.
   A lot of hard cross country miles today ( 166)  but was able to place a six volume set of health books and leave books on prophecy on the doors of a couple of churches along the way. A lot of good , humble people here. Never saw, in this country so much poverty and lack of education though. We are east of Morgantown and south of Uniontown. Have had some amazing experiences already working the area but that is true of every area. It is very scenic driving the country toads. I crossed several streams today with my vehicle, bottomed out twice and had it was so bad on one dirt road I had to turn back and bang my way back out to the paved road.
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Plain Adventist

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Re: Rebellion Against the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2017, 04:39:48 AM »
That is wonderful you are now working in West Virginia, but I am sorry that you have had some challenging experiences. I am also sorry that the churches in your area are such a disappointment. It is true I have only been to a few of the churches recently. In November we moved to Parkersburg, but before that we were members of Glenville. It is more conservative than where we are now and you might enjoy it if you are able to visit some time. Where we are, we have challenges with the influences my children are exposed to. I am torn.
I do not want to write much on it here, as I know it is not the purpose of this thread. And from what I read on this forum, and read in the Visitor, I know it is so much worse in other places. Still, am I doing the right thing? is the question. If anyone wants to comment on this, maybe you should message me, so we do not derail this thread.
Amy Pavlovik ~~ “The strength and spirituality of the people of God are manifest by the distinctness of the line of demarcation which separates them from the world.” SW 17