Author Topic: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church  (Read 43822 times)

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Richard Myers

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #80 on: August 19, 2012, 07:40:17 PM »
When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.

The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.--2SM 380
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

Mimi

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #81 on: August 19, 2012, 08:00:13 PM »
http://www.adventistreview.org/article/5625/archives/issue-2012-1523/a-response-to-the-pacific-union-conference-constituency-vote


A Response to the Pacific Union Conference Constituency Vote


The 17 million members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church are united through the Holy Spirit in a common commitment to Christ and the truths of His Word, an urgent end-time mission, and a divinely inspired church organization. A threat to any one of these places at risk the unity of the church. It is for this reason that the leadership of the Seventh-day Adventist Church affirms the Pacific Union’s action not to change their Constitution and remain in harmony with the world church. This represents a step in a positive direction. The General Conference leadership is seriously concerned, though, with the Pacific Union’s subsequent action to preempt the collective decisions of the world church regarding ordination. Unilateral actions contrary to the voted decisions of the global church seriously threaten the unity of the church.

The world church recognizes the vital role that women play in the life, ministry and leadership of the church and encourages their active involvement. Because the General Conference Administrative Committee has already voted and commenced the most comprehensive study in our history on the subject of ordination, which will include the study of the ordination of women, the action of the Pacific Union to grant Ministerial Ordination “without respect to gender” preempts the process voted for the current study of ordination theology and practices by committing the Pacific Union Conference to a particular outcome before the study-and-discussion process is completed. It also expresses a lack of trust in the integrity of the general process accepted and voted by General Conference administrators and personnel, division officers, and pastors and lay members from all the world divisions who serve on the General Conference Executive Committee, which includes the presidents of the 125 unions representing the world church, regarding how we approach common challenges.

       Further, the action is contrary to General Conference Working Policy and sets aside the 1990 and 1995 decisions of the General Conference in Session respecting the practice of ordination. The action taken by the Pacific Union Conference represents a serious threat to the unity of the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church, and thus, at its next meeting in October 2012, as indicated in another recent public statement by General Conference officers and division presidents, the General Conference Executive Committee will carefully review the situation and determine how to respond. In the spirit of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the officers of the General Conference appeal to all entities, organizations, and individuals, including the Pacific Union Conference, to refrain from independent and unilateral decisions and from implementing any such actions.

It is our prayer that the “oneness” Jesus prayed for in His great intercessory prayer in John 17, and that which the disciples experienced in Acts 2, will be manifest in His church today. We pray that the result of this “oneness” will be lives transformed by His grace, united in His love, and empowered by His Spirit to proclaim His last-day message in all of its fullness to a perishing planet, hastening the glorious return of our Lord.


Ted N. C. Wilson, President
General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists


G. T. Ng, Secretary
General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists


Robert E. Lemon, Treasurer
General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Vicki

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #82 on: August 19, 2012, 08:01:25 PM »
Pastor Wilson is now explaining that there is no confusion about he ordination being gender specific.

Point of order. cutting Wilson off

Could someone explain what happened concerning this more clearly, please. Thanks.

carls365

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #83 on: August 19, 2012, 08:03:17 PM »
We must look and march forward to that time after the chaff has been shaken out for there will be many more trials. This experience should strengthen us to withstand those harder times.

Vicki

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #84 on: August 19, 2012, 08:09:49 PM »
I agree. I think things will get a lot worse before they get better.

Mimi

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #85 on: August 19, 2012, 08:12:34 PM »
Pastor Wilson is now explaining that there is no confusion about he ordination being gender specific.

Point of order. cutting Wilson off

Could someone explain what happened concerning this more clearly, please. Thanks.

An unnamed woman in rebellion, guilty of witchcraft, stepped up to the microphone while Elder Wilson was speaking. She called a point of order and said there is a lot of business to do and, in essence, may we get on with it. Ricardo Graham asked her if it would be okay for Elder Wilson to continue. He seemed shocked himself, like "this is the world president you are interrupting, let the man finish." It was agreed that he could - and he did. It was quite shocking, rude and base to the core. That is how I remember it. Sometimes the shock of things can cause reality to become suspended. Maybe others can verify this.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

LindaRS

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #86 on: August 19, 2012, 08:13:34 PM »
Pastor Wilson is now explaining that there is no confusion about he ordination being gender specific.

Point of order. cutting Wilson off

Could someone explain what happened concerning this more clearly, please. Thanks.

With several of us commenting, it may have been difficult to understand exactly what happened. As Elder Wilson was speaking, actually coming close to the end of his remarks, a woman, I think they called her Elly, stood up and rudely tried to stop him by saying something to the effect (I don't remember her exact words) about getting on with the vote. The chair called it a point of order, but I saw nothing but a woman who didn't want to hear anything more that was against what she wanted. The chair, however, did not stop Elder Wilson, but explained that they had agreed to give him an extra 10 minutes. He was very gracious, accepted it as a point of order, and finished his talk. Point of order is asking for clarification on some point or issue.
O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. O Lord, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. Jeremiah  10:23-24

Vicki

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #87 on: August 19, 2012, 08:17:36 PM »
Thank you both for clarifying. You all did an excellent job of reporting and I greatly appreciate your efforts. Condensing hours of the meeting is not an easy job.

I am ashamed for the woman.  :-[

Mimi

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #88 on: August 19, 2012, 08:26:59 PM »
From ANN:

Church officials say Pacific Union vote on ordination ‘preempts’ study process

Aug. 19, 2012 Silver Spring, Maryland, United States

ANN staff

Top leadership of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists this evening issued a response to the Pacific Union Conference’s vote to recommend ordaining ministers without regard to gender, saying the move is a “serious threat” to unity of the world church and preempts an ongoing study on the issue of ordination.

Adventist Church President Ted N. C. Wilson addresses a special Constituency Session in the Pacific Union Conference on August 19. He and other world church officers later issued a response to the voted action in support of ordination without regard to gender.

In a special session this afternoon, constituents of the California-based Pacific Union voted 79 percent to 21 percent to recommend to its Executive Committee to “approve ordinations to the gospel ministry without regard to gender.” The Adventist Church currently does not ordain women as ministers.

Pacific Union’s move comes three weeks after a union in the mid-Atlantic United States voted a similar action. The Maryland-based Columbia Union Conference on July 29 voted to recommend to its Executive Committee to approve ordination without regard to gender.

General Conference officers said both actions are contrary to policy. Leaders appealed to all administrative units to “refrain from independent and unilateral decisions” and said the world church Executive Committee will determine how to respond at its next meeting in October.

The response from General Conference officers follows in its entirety:


A RESPONSE TO THE ACTION OF THE PACIFIC UNION CONFERENCE CONSTIUENCY MEETING ON SUNDAY, AUGUST 19, 2012

The 17 million members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church are united through the Holy Spirit in a common commitment to Christ and the truths of His Word, an urgent end-time mission, and a divinely inspired church organization. A threat to any one of these places at risk the unity of the church. It is for this reason that the leadership of the Seventh-day Adventist Church affirms the Pacific Union’s action not to change their Constitution and remain in harmony with the world church. This represents a step in a positive direction. The General Conference leadership is seriously concerned, though, with the Pacific Union’s subsequent action to preempt the collective decisions of the world church regarding ordination. Unilateral actions contrary to the voted decisions of the global church seriously threaten the unity of the church.

The world church recognizes the vital role that women play in the life, ministry and leadership of the church and encourages their active involvement. Because the General Conference Administrative Committee has already voted and commenced the most comprehensive study in our history on the subject of ordination, which will include the study of the ordination of women, the action of the Pacific Union to grant Ministerial Ordination “without respect to gender” preempts the process voted for the current study of ordination theology and practices by committing the Pacific Union Conference to a particular outcome before the study-and-discussion process is completed. It also expresses a lack of trust in the integrity of the general process accepted and voted by General Conference administrators and personnel, division officers, and pastors and lay members from all the world divisions who serve on the General Conference Executive Committee, which includes the presidents of the 125 unions representing the world church, regarding how we approach common challenges.

Further, the action is contrary to General Conference Working Policy and sets aside the 1990 and 1995 decisions of the General Conference in Session respecting the practice of ordination. The action taken by the Pacific Union Conference represents a serious threat to the unity of the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church, and thus, at its next meeting in October 2012, as indicated in another recent public statement by General Conference officers and division presidents, the General Conference Executive Committee will carefully review the situation and determine how to respond. In the spirit of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the officers of the General Conference appeal to all entities, organizations, and individuals, including the Pacific Union Conference, to refrain from independent and unilateral decisions and from implementing any such actions.

It is our prayer that the “oneness” Jesus prayed for in His great intercessory prayer in John 17, and that which the disciples experienced in Acts 2, will be manifest in His church today. We pray that the result of this “oneness” will be lives transformed by His grace, united in His love, and empowered by His Spirit to proclaim His last-day message in all of its fullness to a perishing planet, hastening the glorious return of our Lord.

Ted N. C. Wilson, President
General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

G. T. Ng, Secretary
General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

Robert E. Lemon, Treasurer
General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Mimi

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2012, 08:40:55 PM »
I appreciate the exceptionally rapid response from the GC. This is as it should be.
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

Immanuel

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #90 on: August 19, 2012, 08:48:33 PM »
I was not able to watch the proceedings so I am somewhat confused. The bylaws amendment was did not pass. I thought this was the only thing that they were meeting for. Did the motion to approve ordination without regard to gender get added after the failed vote, or was that on the agenda from the beginning?

John Erickson

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #91 on: August 19, 2012, 09:22:46 PM »
Yes, the bylaw change and the WO vote were both on the agenda from the beginning.
"Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen" Matthew 28:20

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #92 on: August 19, 2012, 09:28:14 PM »
There were two items on the agenda: amend bylaws and women's ordination. The bylaws failed to pass and that would have paved the way for them to "legally" vote and pass WO. But, it didn't pass and they continued to vote on WO. So, they voted contrary to their own bylaws. Amazing. 
  For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 

John Erickson

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #93 on: August 19, 2012, 09:32:55 PM »
I know, it made me laugh inside. Not in a happy way, but in a "WOW, you can't make this stuff up, they are going against their own bylaws!" kind of way.
"Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen" Matthew 28:20

Richard Myers

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #94 on: August 19, 2012, 09:46:34 PM »
I was not able to watch the proceedings so I am somewhat confused. The bylaws amendment was did not pass. I thought this was the only thing that they were meeting for. Did the motion to approve ordination without regard to gender get added after the failed vote, or was that on the agenda from the beginning?

There was a point of order on this, Immanuel.  It was not published in the Recorder.  The legal counsel ruled it was legal to not publish, but to add to the agenda. Not right.
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Wally

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #95 on: August 20, 2012, 02:38:53 AM »




The applause, the high fives, the wolf whistles (yes, I heard at least one wolf whistle) the hugs, and the general post-game-win-like actions of the attendees after the vote to ordain women carried, clearly bespoke the kind of spirit that was ruling the meeting, and it was not the Spirit of God, but another spirit, the spirit of antichrist.



I think that reaction is very telling.  It proves what many of us have been saying all along; that the spirit behind this movement has been anything but Christlike.
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants:  we have done that which was our duty to do.  Luke 17:10

Immanuel

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #96 on: August 20, 2012, 04:05:57 AM »
From what I gather they needed to change the by-laws so that they would not have to be in harmony, or, to use their term "lock-step", with the GC. The lawyers and parliamentarians argue that it is ok for them to move forward with the WO vote because current GC policy does not expressly forbid the ordaining of women, as in it does not say "only men can be ordained to ministry, women are not eligible."

The policy does only mention men in its qualifications section, which was posted on the website for the special PUC session. It seems like the lawyers were being good lawyers and found a loophole that made the rebels feel justified in their course of action. I wonder when they will use the lawyers and parliamentarians to argue that Sunday church is ok. After all there is no verse that says "you cannot have church on Sunday."    :(

Immanuel

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #97 on: August 20, 2012, 04:14:57 AM »
Here is the notice of the special constituency meeting from the PUC session website. Notice the part I bolded. At some point they realized that this may not happen so they had to change the agenda. Their attitude is to do whatever it takes to get their way.

Notice of Pacific Union Conference Special Constituency Session

A Special Session of the Pacific Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists will be held at the Warner Center Marriott, Woodland Hills, 21850 Oxnard Street, Woodland Hills, California, 91367 on August 19, 2012. Registration will begin at 10 a.m., with the meeting beginning at 1 p.m., August 19.

This session is called to consider the following changes to the Pacific Union Bylaws. The proposed changes will enable the union to approve the ordination of ministers without regard to gender, when a local conference requests such approval. [Words in red to be deleted; underlined words to be added]

"All In general, the policies, purposes and procedures of this Union shall will be in harmony with the working policies and procedures of the North American Division and the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists."

The Pacific Union bylaws entitle each local conference to one delegate without regard to the membership count of the conference. Additional delegates are based on a proportional basis, on the count of the membership of the conferences, made at the end of the calendar year immediately preceding the date of the regularly scheduled session.

Ricardo Graham, President

Bradford Newton, Executive Secretary

In the interest of conducting serious business in an attitude of prayer,

only official delegates will be admitted to the room where the session will be held.

Spouses may view the proceedings from a nearby room via video.

Everyone else may view the session live by clicking "Watch Session Live" in the left sidebar of this web page.

Richard Myers

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #98 on: August 20, 2012, 06:12:47 AM »
Their bylaws say that they will be in harmony with the General Conference and the NAD.  Both have instructed them to not ordain women. They have violated their own bylaws. That is why their attempt to amend their bylaws.  Any lawyer who would not point this out, is not worthy of his practice. To move forward with the second motion was both a violation of their bylaws in that they had not given notice and they were out of harmony with the NAD and the General Conference which is seen in the bylaws portion they attempted to amend. The president of the NAD had warned them not to move forward. He voted with the General Conference in making the appeal to the unions to not vote to ordain women. The 315 members of the Pacific Union Conference Constituency have proved themselves unworthy of their leadership of the union. They are in rebellion against God and His Church.  The General Conference will be meeting soon at their Annual Council and will address the rebellion of four unions that have violated their bylaws and have rejected the authority of the World Church. The leaders of this rebellion have identified themselves as being leaders in the rebellion. Also, there are local conferences that also have violated their bylaws by rejecting the authority of the General Conference. Leaders in these conferences have identified themselves as leaders in the rebellion.  It is a very sad situation, but these men have proven unworthy of their  positions and even church membership. We pray that they will, by God's grace, repent of their rebellion against God and His church.
Jesus receives His reward when we reflect His character, the fruits of the Spirit......We deny Jesus His reward when we do not.

colporteur

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Re: Pacific Union Rebels Against World Church
« Reply #99 on: August 20, 2012, 07:41:12 AM »

The policy does only mention men in its qualifications section, which was posted on the website for the special PUC session. It seems like the lawyers were being good lawyers and found a loophole that made the rebels feel justified in their course of action. I wonder when they will use the lawyers and parliamentarians to argue that Sunday church is ok. After all there is no verse that says "you cannot have church on Sunday."    :(

Exactly so !
 
 Will they say ?- "The Bible does not expressly forbid Sunday worship"......     Neither does it expressly forbid smoking pot or belly dancing.
 Will they say? "The "culturally relevant" day of worship is certainly on the day of the sun. ....   yah right.
 Will they say? "Sunday worship  is generally in harmony with the principle of 4th commandment"...... yah right.

These rebels know full well exactly what the intent of the GC was and is. Yet they strain and twist to attempt rationalizing rising up and rebelling and then they call it God's leading. This is the Golden Calf part II.

Then those like Ron say that the GC was not against ordaining women pastors, that they just did not want division. How Satan can get in thre minds of our people is fearful !

It's easier to slow a fast horse down than to get a dead one going.