Author Topic: Tomatoes  (Read 108349 times)

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colporteur

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #300 on: April 30, 2015, 04:51:57 PM »

Mark do you ever get a bit of sun burn on your tomatoes at first ?
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colporteur

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #301 on: April 30, 2015, 05:07:53 PM »
When she says "layers of earth", I understand this  to be the material dug out of the hole. Do you understand it that way also? If so, why would this be a good thing to put back into the hole unmixed?

If I remember correctly the soil was to be mixed with a layer of sand at the bottom, and in the  top 12 inches the rock phosphate and worm castings. Years ago, I was not able to get the rock phosphate as the powers that be were worried (supposedly) about people making bombs with it. So I used a couple of buckets of decomposed horse manure per tree. All I know is the results were fabulous.  In many areas of the country including mine if you go a foot or more down you hit yellow clay. This clay does not grow much. If you put it on the top as in when they dig in a water line and are not careful about pushing the topsoil off to the side and returning it back to the top the ground is largely sterile and will not grow anything. The point is that in most areas of the country where the soil has been worked it is only the top few inches that has much fertility. If one does no more than dig a hole and return exactly the same soil to the whole all one gains is to loosen the soil. There is some value in that but we can greatly enrich the soil while we are at it. Mostly what I replaced was the bottom half of the soil which was entirely yellow clay. Black is good. Yellow is not. Of course down south they have red soil. I have heard that to blend some of the existing soil with new soil works best other wise if the soil is entirely replaced with rich new soil the roots are not very excited about growing out beyond the 3 ft. square. I purchased 5 yards of top soil and blended the best of the existing soil with the new topsoil with the manure. All I know is that trees jumped and produced gangbusters.
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Richard Myers

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #302 on: April 30, 2015, 10:15:45 PM »
I have read many suggestions about planting, but have not seen what you are sharing from the Spirit of Prophecy. Can you share where I can find it?  I have heavy clay soil, and I put it back into the hole just as she said to. It is not a very thick layer and  it soft when it goes back in. I believe it allows the roots to go in all directions. Some go into the rich soil underneath, some goes sideways through the clay and into the existing clay outside the hole. I think that is why we are to place the original soil back into the hole. The clay has nutrients in it. The spread of the roots outside of the hole is good. And, to dig a pit and replace the soil with rich loam when there is clay surrounding the hole can act as a sump during the winter. The water rushes into the hole and does not quickly drain into the surrounding clay, this the roots end up sitting in water. It appears the counsel given helps to avoid this swimming pool effect by having layers of the original soil that slows the water from filling the hole. But, the roots traveled through it into the richer soil underneath the layers of original soil.

That is the best I can figure out what I have read. Am  interested in seeing more counsel in planting trees. There is always more light that we have not seen!  :)
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colporteur

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #303 on: May 01, 2015, 07:05:20 AM »
  I'll have to see if the person that gave me a copy has another. It has been years and I have long since lost mine. How deep do you big up the soil, Richard ? The yellow or blue clay subsoil here has scant little nutrient, mostly nitrogen that leaches down. All one has to do is observe the tracts where this clay has been left on the surface after a pipe line has been dug to see that nothing much grows in it. The only places that would be different is where the soil has been prairie since the flood and then lawn so as not to erode and blow away top soil. There the topsoil is 2-4 feet deep otherwise it is less than a foot. This of course is  prime midwest soil and much of the soil across the land is much less fertile. When we used to plow our farm we were careful not to get into the clay and roll it over. Incidentally, the yellow sub soil  clay which is 6-8 feet deep is porous and absorbs water like a sponge. Flooding  is not the problem unless you are already in a marsh It is the  lack of fertility in the clay. I was just reading this  moments ago from a state horticultural web site.

 I know what I have done works. I returned to my orchard while passing through the area 5 years later and while the trees had not ever been tended to they were in great shape and heavily laden with fruit.  Apparently, the roots spread out well and the soil drained adequately. From what you have said it appears that you may have a richer sub soil than we have.




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colporteur

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #304 on: May 01, 2015, 07:37:18 AM »
  I'll have to see if the person that gave me a copy has another. It has been years and I have long since lost mine. How deep do you big up the soil, Richard ? The yellow or blue clay subsoil here has scant little nutrient, mostly nitrogen that leaches down. All one has to do is observe the tracts where this clay has been left on the surface after a pipe line has been dug to see that nothing much grows in it. The only places that would be different is where the soil has been prairie since the flood and then lawn so as not to erode and blow away top soil. There the topsoil is 2-4 feet deep otherwise it is less than a foot. This of course is  prime midwest soil and much of the soil across the land is much less fertile. When we used to plow our farm we were careful not to get into the clay and roll it over. Incidentally, the yellow sub soil  clay which is 6-8 feet deep is porous and absorbs water like a sponge. Flooding  is not the problem unless you are already in a marsh. It is the  lack of fertility in the clay. I was just reading this moments ago from a state horticultural web site.

 I know what I have done works. I returned to my orchard while passing through the area 5 years later and while the trees had not ever been tended to they were in great shape and heavily laden with fruit.  Apparently, the roots spread out well and the soil drained adequately. From what you have said it appears that you may have a richer sub soil than we have.





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Richard Myers

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #305 on: May 01, 2015, 08:30:17 AM »
There are many different soil conditions. What the Spirit of Prophecy counsels is most appropriate for most soils, if not all.

As for the depth and size of the hole, it depends on how wealthy one is and how much strength and time they have to dig. The larger the pit, the better. Tree roots from what I understand, extend at least to the drip line. That means a walnut tree in your soil would need a hole 25 feet across in  order to get  nutrient at the drip line.  It costs money and time to fill the hole as well as to dig it. The size of my holes fit my pocketbook and time when it is dug.   :)  I dug five foot holes when I had a hoe. I have one left I am planting today. The other tree will get a three foot hole and not the best of compost. It is the best I can do today.   My clay soil is hard as rock in the summer, but it has nutrients. I have mulched with wood chips and that will help retain moisture and create compost over time.
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colporteur

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #306 on: May 01, 2015, 02:24:21 PM »
 No one is suggesting digging a 25 ft. diameter hole. :D The hole is not intended to be the entire feeding area for the life of the tree. It is to get the tree off to a robust start and to continue to assist the tree as the roots spread. The tree  derives most of its nutrient from the top 2 ft. of soil and there are always roots that extend out to the drip line that pull nutrients from the top layer of soil. They also pick up nitrogen and such from rain water and from the air itself. The recommendation for the hole size was a 3 ft. cube. That is several times the size of what most people dig. I dug six holes that size by hand and the rest was dug with a back hoe. It takes either time, manpower, or a  back hoe to dig a lot of holes. The smallest back hoe is sufficient for that size of a hole and a rented hoe can be used to dig many holes in one day.
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Richard Myers

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #307 on: May 02, 2015, 07:34:16 AM »
Yes, the roots need to get into the natural soil even if it is not as good as the hole. I think this is one of the reasons for placing layers of the  original soil into the hole. It helps the roots to find their way out of the hole. Otherwise the roots would tend to stay in the hole far too long. In our location, the hole not only has more nutrient, it is softer and because it is more porous it will have more water in the summer. A root ball would develop if we did not encourage the roots to spread out into the original soil even  if it is  blue or yellow clay. The tree will get some nutrient from poor soil and it is in need of large amounts of water that will come from the original soil beyond the hole. The roots also serve as an anchor for the tree. We may not understand why the counsel is as it is, but if we follow it, we shall be blessed.

If you ever find any additional information in the Spirit of Prophecy on how to plant, we all would appreciate it, cp. This is all I have ever  seen.
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Richard Myers

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #308 on: June 17, 2015, 08:25:46 AM »
Prayer works!! Am praying more this year after the loss last year.   Have my first full size tomato turning red. A friend felt sorry for me and gave a some of his ripe tomatoes last week. Such joy!!!  The cherry tomatoes have been doing well, but there is something about the full size ones that is so very good!! Anyone else eating their homegrown tomatoes yet?
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Dorine

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #309 on: June 17, 2015, 10:56:08 AM »
No. I'm just getting mine in the ground today. They do have blossoms though. My daughter and I planted over 300 seeds for the family to plant and for sale. We have been doing quite well in sales because the commercial greenhouses in the province that were full of tomato plants for this year colapsed from the heavy snowfall we had this past winter. Many businesses have gone under. We are wishing we could have planted more. It looks like it's going to be a wonderful year for berries and fruit of all kinds.

I wanted to mention that James White wrote an article called "Small Fruit".  It describes how to plant and care for small fruit. It is excellent. I downloaded it to Kindle. I got it from http://ellenwhiteaudio.org/pioneers/ebooks-of-the-pioneers/ It was under James White

Talking about digging holes for planting trees.....I do not have any place to dig holes. Run into bedrock everywhere. I do have a hollow on one side of the property and I found old rotten wood and twigs and made a fence with in and filled with soil. I built it up that way and planted my apple tree. I will take a picture and show you. It is rather crude right now but I'm thinking it will work just fine.
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colporteur

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #310 on: June 17, 2015, 12:20:57 PM »

I have a terrible time growing tomatoes at my current locations. The last two years it was plague like grasshoppers. I got plenty to eat but not to can. Otherwise it is never ending blight. This year I have a new problem. Some kind of weevil is burrowing up the stalk and killing the top of the plant.
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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #311 on: June 18, 2015, 10:26:23 AM »
cp, are they only eating your tomato plants?
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Richard Myers

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #312 on: June 18, 2015, 10:26:52 AM »

No. I'm just getting mine in the ground today. They do have blossoms though. My daughter and I planted over 300 seeds for the family to plant and for sale. We have been doing quite well in sales because the commercial greenhouses in the province that were full of tomato plants for this year colapsed from the heavy snowfall we had this past winter. Many businesses have gone under. We are wishing we could have planted more. It looks like it's going to be a wonderful year for berries and fruit of all kinds.

How sad that the businesses are failing. But, God has turned the disaster to good for you and those wanting tomato plants.

Quote
I wanted to mention that James White wrote an article called "Small Fruit".  It describes how to plant and care for small fruit. It is excellent. I downloaded it to Kindle. I got it from http://ellenwhiteaudio.org/pioneers/ebooks-of-the-pioneers/ It was under James White.

Thank  you for sharing, Dorine. I am reading it now. All need to read  it. Small berries do not take five years to produce fruit. Sometime in the near future, it will be important for many who  do not have enough food.

Quote
Talking about digging holes for planting trees.....I do not have any place to dig holes. Run into bedrock everywhere. I do have a hollow on one side of the property and I found old rotten wood and twigs and made a fence with in and filled with soil. I built it up that way and planted my apple tree. I will take a picture and show you. It is rather crude right now but I'm thinking it will work just fine.

God gave you wisdom, dear sister.  Looking forward to the pictures.
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colporteur

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #313 on: June 18, 2015, 11:32:19 AM »
cp, are they only eating your tomato plants?


Tomatoes and pepper plants. They eat into the side of the vine and burrow up the center of the vine, a little black worm. Never had that problem before. They more or less kill the plant over time. Used to be that hardly anything but a few aphids and blight prayed on my tomatoes. Now tomatoes are first on the menu. I loaded up for grasshoppers this year and we have none.
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colporteur

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #314 on: June 25, 2015, 05:32:39 PM »
cp, are they only eating your tomato plants?


Tomatoes and pepper plants. They eat into the side of the vine and burrow up the center of the vine, a little black worm. Never had that problem before. They more or less kill the plant over time. Used to be that hardly anything but a few aphids and blight prayed on my tomatoes. Now tomatoes are first on the menu. I loaded up for grasshoppers this year and we have none.

They are also eating potato plants. Apparently they like nightshade plants. They are a small black caterpillar  with a cream colored head. They burrow into the stalk anywhere from ground lever on up to a foot or so high. Then they eat up through or down through the stalk of the plant. The plant wilts and dies. Perhaps Mark knows what this is. I am using Colorado Potato Beetle spray on them today and tomorrow. We'll see it that stops them. Probably those already in the stalk will not be affected.

And now, just when I thought the grasshoppers were not going to plague the garden this year they came seemingly out of no where. Most are 1/4 " long but I did see one that was an inch long. I am trying something new this year. It is an organic product I ordered from Garden's Alive called Semaspore Bait. One pound covers an acre and you just spread on by hand or with a spreader. It smells and looks like wheat germ. The hoppers feed on it and become infected with a parasite that either makes them very sick or else it kills them. The other hoppers cannibalize and eat the sick and dying hoppers and then become infected  as well. It is a full time job just trying to stay a head of the weeds, blight and pests.

     I did am get a bumper crop of green onions, lettuce, kale, cabbage, kohlrabi's, cilantro, dill and broccoli. I canned 14 quarts of kale today and baked some kale chips in the oven. We are also eating some fresh sweet peas.

Other than the issues with the nightshade plants the garden is doing well with warm temps and good moisture.
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Richard Myers

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #315 on: August 21, 2016, 09:15:50 AM »
I was looking over the topics we have in our Gardening Forum. I was shocked to see the hits on this thread. There is nothing read nearly as much as this topic on Tomatoes.   :)   Here we are in much of the world in the midst of harvesting our favorite garden produce. After a few years of not having a great harvest, it has been refreshing to be eating my own tomatoes. While I erred in choosing only two heirlooms, one of which I don't like, it was a good lesson for me. I will always plant that which I like best, even though they may not produce as much, or even fail in a particular year. I am not complaining, for I have a lot of Better Boys. And a few Volkovs.  All of my tomatoes are small this year. Not sure if it is me or a general trend in my area. Others have experienced a similar harvest of smaller tomatoes.

My ground is clay and has been fallow for 30 years with few leaves falling on the soil. As I improve the soil, I expect to see a better yield. Greens, squash, and eggplants have done well. Melons were ok. I have planted trees also. They have been planted in amended holes, and are doing great.

Anyone else having fun with your tomatoes?
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JimB

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #316 on: August 21, 2016, 09:21:15 AM »
Anyone else having fun with your tomatoes?
I had to chuckle at this I only add tomatoes to the garden if I know for sure that one or two family members will make use of them. This year I didn't start my tomatoes in time so I have none but this is no great loss to me. My taste buds still don't understand the all the "hoopla" over tomatoes.
By communion with God in nature, the mind is uplifted, and the heart finds rest.  {DA 291.1}

colporteur

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #317 on: August 21, 2016, 09:39:16 AM »
Anyone else having fun with your tomatoes?
I had to chuckle at this I only add tomatoes to the garden if I know for sure that one or two family members will make use of them. This year I didn't start my tomatoes in time so I have none but this is no great loss to me. My taste buds still don't understand the all the "hoopla" over tomatoes.

We will pray for you, Jim.  ;D  In my mind there is no life without tomatoes. lol.
Just curious, do you have a bit of a sensitivity to sour or acid foods ? I have found that many people either have a sweet or sour bend to their taste buds. Not saying that tomatoes are sour but  acid and sour kind of go together. I like sweet things but I can eat and do like very sour things. If I buy fruit juice it is too sweet for me. It tastes like sugar syrup. I dilute it 50/50 with water. My wife on the other hand drinks it straight and likes it that way. When I eat something that is not even sour to me it makes her mouth twist together like a prune. Obviously our taste buds are geared differently. It is also interesting how our taste changes. The more of something we eat and the more often we eat it  the milder the taste seems to be. The less salt we eat the more salty things taste and visa versa.
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JimB

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #318 on: August 21, 2016, 09:55:15 AM »
Just curious, do you have a bit of a sensitivity to sour or acid foods ?
I am not a fan of sour things that is for sure. Tomatoes are not sour to me. Most of the time for me there is hardly any taste at all. Which is why I still add them salads and sandwiches since I know they are good for me. If I can taste a tomato it usually comes across as bitter to me. 
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Richard Myers

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Re: Tomatoes
« Reply #319 on: August 21, 2016, 02:40:51 PM »
Jim, you are a nice guy! Planting tomatoes for your friends!!   :)

I know a few who don't like tomatoes, but I have never heard anyone call them sour or bitter. That is a new one for me.  I could not eat a salad without tomatoes, even the store bought will work. But, the reason why so many grow tomatoes is because it is impossible to eat a store bought tomato by itself. It is like eating a store bought peach. We can't wait for our tomatoes to ripen. We even settle for our cherry tomatoes until the real ones come in.  :)

The heirloom I grew this year that I don't like is a pineapple tomato. I just don't like it. I have never had a tomato that tasted sour or bitter. I am sensitive to both sour and bitter. I hate bitter, and a little sour with sweet is ok.

The Volkov's are ok this year, but I miss my large beefsteaks. You know, the ones that cover the plate, are juicy and full of flavor!   Next year!
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